Real Life Question about the Dueling Sword in this game. What sword or sword type is it based on?

[DawgSoldier]

Just curious as it looks like a German Langes Messer to me. Just wondering if anyone actually knew.what sword and or sword type the Dualing sword is actually based on.

I am super familiar with 2nd edition D&D and the whole Baldurs Gate Icewind Dale lgames. Pathfinder on the other hand is completely new to me. As is the Dueling Sword.

Thanks

[[Slayer]]

Its looks like a Katana to me.

[Procrastinating Gamer]

A lot of the artwork in the tabletop books shows them as either being a katana, a short-ish katana (so like a kodachi) or a katana that gets broader towards the end of the blade (like a scimitar, but to a lesser degree). Tends to vary by artist.

I don't think there is a real-life weapon it was based on. They made something similar to a katana but not exactly like a katana because they intended to have actual katana in for the sake of Golarion's equivalent to Japan (a country called Minkai on the continent of Tian'Xia).

EDIT: Incidentally; if you're looking for PF's equivalent of a Kriegsmesser, that'd be the Falchion. Not sure about a Langes Messer (the one-handed version) though.

[Morgian]

It looks a bit like a cutlass or sabre, as used in the 17th century, e.g. the carribean. It might also be like the yataghan, a turkish blade, or the chinese sabre, which looks very similar too.

[DawgSoldier]

Originally posted by Shadow88:

A lot of the artwork in the tabletop books shows them as either being a katana, a short-ish katana (so like a kodachi) or a katana that gets broader towards the end of the blade (like a scimitar, but to a lesser degree). Tends to vary by artist.

I don't think there is a real-life weapon it was based on. They made something similar to a katana but not exactly like a katana because they intended to have actual katana in for the sake of Golarion's equivalent to Japan (a country called Minkai on the continent of Tian'Xia).

EDIT: Incidentally; if you're looking for PF's equivalent of a Kriegsmesser, that'd be the Falchion. Not sure about a Langes Messer (the one-handed version) though.

See I thought the Elven Curved Blade was the Katana's represenative in this game. As it has simple like suba round or oval disc guard from what I can tell. Where as the guard on the Dueling Sword reminded me of Langes Messer, hence my question of this thread.

[aramintai]

Looks like a mix of sabre/hussar shaska to me since in the game there are dueling swords with or without guard. These two were used for dueling back in the day and kinda more appropriate for the region with Russian-looking names and motiff.
Btw, one of the real federal subjects of Russia situated around Rostov city (sounds familiar to Restov, no?) has many of its municipal divisions flags with these weapons:
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Флаги_Ростовской_области

[Cypher]

Funny, I thought the Dueling sword more resembled a falchion than the falchion in the game... Falchions are in fact one - handed not two as in the game

[DawgSoldier]

Originally posted by Cypher:

Funny, I thought the Dueling sword more resembled a falchion than the falchion in the game... Falchions are in fact one - handed not two as in the game

Mucking about on youtube I found this 6 part series on Messer vs Falchion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WaE9AqrIAU

Being it is youtube I can't say how accurate it is but it seems legit on it's face in my opinion.

Also the 2nd addition AD&D I grew up with always seemed heavily influenced by Western Europe. So are you all /some saying Pathfinder is more influenced by Central and Eastern Europe? If so tell me more, as this is the 1st Pathfinder anything I have ever messed with.

[aramintai]

Originally posted by eevans0327:

So are you all /some saying Pathfinder is more influenced by Central and Eastern Europe? If so tell me more, as this is the 1st Pathfinder anything I have ever messed with.

I don't know about all of the Pathfinder but this Kingmaker campaign definetly is inspired by Eastern Europe, with some names clearly being Russian.

Judging by the lore and maps of Golarion, Pathfinder world is as diverse as the real world with parts of the world taking inspiration from Europe, India, Arab countries etc. And AD&D 2nd edition had many different campaigns in different settings. But if you mean the Forgotten Realms then in that world, which is also very diverse, there was also a land called Rashemen with Eastern Europe/ Russian motiff - it's where Edwin, Minsc and Dynaheir from Baldur's Gate were from. Also NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer was mostly played in that land. So no, neither Pathfinder, nor AD&D are solely influenced by the Western Europe.

[DawgSoldier]

Originally posted by aramintai:

Originally posted by eevans0327:

So are you all /some saying Pathfinder is more influenced by Central and Eastern Europe? If so tell me more, as this is the 1st Pathfinder anything I have ever messed with.

I don't know about all of the Pathfinder but this Kingmaker campaign definetly is inspired by Eastern Europe, with some names clearly being Russian.

Judging by the lore and maps of Golarion, Pathfinder world is as diverse as the real world with parts of the world taking inspiration from Europe, India, Arab countries etc. And AD&D 2nd edition had many different campaigns in different settings. But if you mean the Forgotten Realms then in that world, which is also very diverse, there was also a land called Rashemen with Eastern Europe/ Russian motiff - it's where Edwin, Minsc and Dynaheir from Baldur's Gate were from. Also NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer was mostly played in that land. So no, neither Pathfinder, nor AD&D are solely influenced by the Western Europe.

Oh I know Forgotton Realms quite well. In the late 90's I bought abot 2K$ worth of boxed sets books and such. Faerun The main contenet Ed Greenwood and company started out as very western european IMO. They fleshed out the rest of the Faerun continent quite well and then started adding other continents as well. I always got a more of a Northern European Scandanavian vibe than Russina/Slavic from Rashaman. I mean The Danish Berserker King Harold Bluetooth ruled Northern Europe/Scandanavia from Denmark and he in my opinion would fit right in to Rashaman.

Anyways what did you think about the Falchion/Messier videos?

[aramintai]

Originally posted by eevans0327:

I always got a more of a Northern European Scandanavian vibe than Russina/Slavic from Rashaman. I mean The Danish Berserker King Harold Bluetooth ruled Northern Europe/Scandanavia from Denmark and he in my opinion would fit right in to Rashaman.

I don't know much about Danes, but to me it definetly looked Eastern European/Russian influenced. Too many similar things - from the country's name and stuff taken from fairy tales to people's names. And that thick Russian accent, lol. Also, old Russia was quite heavily influenced by Scandinavian raiders (also from nowadays Denmark), so there was some mix up.

In any case, Pathfinder's dueling sword looks more of a delicate sword than falchion/scimitar/falcata or whatever. So I stand by it being a mix of sabre/shaska, some endgame dueling swords definetly look like a fancy sabre:
https://imgur.com/goNbPBx
https://imgur.com/XrV3h39
https://imgur.com/fa8CyrR

[DawgSoldier]

https://www.lamnia.com/images/525x525/15459_CS88GMSSM-01.jpg

https://www.lamnia.com/en/p/15459/knives/cold-steel-maa-messer-sword-88gmssm

[aramintai]

Originally posted by eevans0327:

https://www.lamnia.com/images/525x525/15459_CS88GMSSM-01.jpg

https://www.lamnia.com/en/p/15459/knives/cold-steel-maa-messer-sword-88gmssm

Yea, but none of the dueling swords in the game have that distinctive cut tip at the end of the blade.
Also, from what I've read falchions are supposed to be shorter and a bit wider than sabres, the only short-ish dueling sword in the game is the starting one, the rest of them are quite long.

Anyway, l'm looking at Aldori swordlords concept art for Pathfinder right now and it's just a messy mix of katanas/sabres/shashkas and similar types of swords. I guess you can't point to one real world reference for a fantasy sword.

[DawgSoldier]

Not all messiers or falchions for that matter have the same type of blade tip. thats addressed in that video series I posted. To me after looking at everything and the pics you posted. I am convinved it is a lang messier

[DawgSoldier]

http://www.west-coast-shop.de/Langes-Messer-1

Thoughts on this one?

[aramintai]

Originally posted by eevans0327:

Not all messiers or falchions for that matter have the same type of blade tip. thats addressed in that video series I posted. To me after looking at everything and the pics you posted. I am convinved it is a lang messier

You should check out Aldori Swordlords concept art then - definetly not one concrete sword from the real world.
Just take a look at these:
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/intermediary/f/df696717-68bb-4577-858d-a9044123a689/d79rqu4-1bf60750-ac44-4c72-bb13-aadb816120d0.jpg

https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/017/343/624/e7c42dce7be88aef0a43ad055a56409c_original.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&w=639&fit=max&v=1498983823&auto=format&gif-q=50&lossless=true&s=43dacd1e96008e71d6d72c36fb308350

https://imgur.com/i8cuQMr

It's funny that their costumes definetly look like something Eastern European-ish, but they're wielding something like a katana, lol.

Jamandi's sword:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/pathfinderkingmaker/images/b/b0/JamandiAldori.png/revision/latest?cb=20181011002910

Kassil's sword:
https://pathfinderkingmaker.gamepedia.com/File:KassilAldori.png