Diety Selection Erastil Longbow vs Composite

[House of Rahl]

the diety selection for erastil gives the character longbow specialization so far as i understand. does that also apply to composite longbows, or only non-composite longbows? im thinking of making a monster tac with a longbow as my main weapon. figure the composite would let me do more dmg if i can get the str up a bit.

[Imperial Guardsman]

Yes. From the SRD entry for composite longbows: "For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow."

[Cutlass Jack]

I can confirm that Longbow perks/proficiencies work with the composite versions in game.

[Morgian]

Composite bows are only variants of the main type, i.e. short- or longbow, not separate weapons.

And don't make a monster tactician, or you are going to join the chorus of the others, who discovered that their feats work only when they are in melee. Bows are out for that archetype, if they want their summons to have team feats.

[House of Rahl]

i understand using a bow will keep the monster tac npc itself from making use of the team feats, but wouldnt they still apply and work on the summonss themselves? im more thinking from a survivability stand point, attempting to keep the char as far from the front as i can. the monster tac will likely be a hired merc, im thinking of running some type of arcane nuker. currently leaning to sylan sorc for the spells per day and animal companion.

the monster tac erastil can take animal companion too and im guessing the teamwork feats would work for the animal companions and summons they provide. they would basically just be a mobile summoner with a few heals and buffs. if i understand it right then i could get things like outflank on amiri and valerie and those would work with the injusitors summons, even if the inquisitor themselves isnt in melee range making use of those feats.

[Morgian]

No, they do not work for your summons, if you are not standing next to them. Others have tried that too and found out the hard way that it does not work. You have to build a melee, if you want to take full advantage of the tactician. I want to warn you, because from your question about the bow I already knew where this would go :)
A melee tactician together with the other fighters of your team and his pets should work very well, if said fighters have the feats. I use them on my trio of melees and they are great without a host of extra pets. I use dual-wielders to maximize the crit-rate to trigger the extra attack feats - at eight attacks per round with a crit-range from 17-20 I can expect 1 extra attack from the other two melees, sometimes two. As a group that adds up to a fourth member's damage output. If I had opted for scimitars I with their crit range from 15-20 it would be more, but the only scimitar I really like is found very late (claw of the bear god).

I never use an animal companion myself, since summons in p&p don't work too well, excepting the summoner class. Animals don't attack supernatural creatures by themselves, they cannot bypass DR without help, gear is limited, and they are finally subject to most spells. Your special summonings can even be dispelled, for which exists a host of spells. Here the summons lack some of the weaknesses from p&p, but still not my cup of tea.

[House of Rahl]

i heard there was a pure summoner class in the pnp. ive never played pnp before just a ton of baldurs gate and icewind dale. i normally main a cleric/mage because of the massive amounts of spells available. then use most of them to either debuff, summon and buff my party/summons. i basically play the class as what i would call a strategist. i control the battle through the spells. i dont directely do damage (often). that was kinda what i was hoping to do with this merc monster tactician. if thats out..... any recommends for a hand off kinda summoner and group debuffer/buffer class?

[Morgian]

Well...

Buffing works fine. The spells always stick and work as advertised. Spells like haste or good hope will improve your melees vastly, be the summoned or not.

Debuffing sucks. Major. At least in my opinion. And here is the why:
- you cast the debuff, while your tank kills mob #1
- the debuff reaches his target, who saves against and ignores it
- the debuff reaches his target, who fails the save and is butchered immediately by the tank
- the debuff reaches his target, who fails to save - this round; but he gets to save again next round
You get the drift. While you try to paralyze one monster, the fighter has already killed one. Then it depends on luck, if the debuff actually works. And even if it does, it works only for a few seconds, before Mr. Warrior kills the mob, or the next save comes around.
It does not help that many enemies have good saving throws. Also, some debuffs are way harder to apply than this. Take Curse for example. You have to cast the spell, deliver it with a touch attack (= going into melee), and then the target gets a save to avoid it completely. If it does not save, it gets -4 on all rolls, which still does not remove it from the battlefield. It just got less dangerous.

That is why my casters are always specialised to do damage. Even a save will only halve the damage, not negate it (unless they are rogues or monks), and what has been burned down does not get a save to stand up again. Zero hitpoints is the best debuff after all.

Nonetheless, you can go that route, but it requires commitment and you have to be prepared for disappointments. First, you need to study the spells, and I mean all of them. So that you can pick out what you would like to use as your control spells. Then you check the type of magic these spells are. You do this in order to pick the right spell focus feat(s), which increase the DC of the save by +1. Not much, but we get there.
Next, you get also greater spell focus and keep all gear that increases the DC of your spells. Unfortunately have necromancers the best DC buffs, but there is a necklace that aids enchanters. Then you get spell penetration, and maybe even the greater version, to pierce the spell resistance of certain enemies.
Then you have to pick a class for your caster. Check closely the school bonuses for wizards and the bloodlines for sorcerers. There are several useful effects in there, which are otherwise locked to you.
Also, check out the racial bonuses, some are better suited for casters than others (gnome illusionists were a thing once).

As an example, take a look at my sorcerer. He is of the evocation school and gets bonus damage on nukes. He is specialised in evocation (+2) and gets another +2 from being a sage sorcerer of high enough level. Since he relies on INT to cast, a boost to INT will raise the DCs in general. Let us assume the +8 INT hat, and my save DCs are already better by 8 points. He also wears the robe of annihilation, which adds even more damage to nukes. His fireballs don't deal 10d6 but 10d6+20.
Your controller won't nuke so much, but he would still like the +8 save DC.

Now, spells. You already checked out the spells (hopefully). When you look at them, take all that do something useful even if the enemy fails the save and put them to one side. Then check, which of them work only on enemies and which would hit your group, too. Those that target only foes and have an effect in any case are your A picks. Those with an effect on a a save are your Bs, and everything else is a C. It is also worth to take a close look at spell resistance. Some spells (typically conjurations) ignore spell resistance, so one hurdle is already cleared.
As an example, there are stinking cloud and cloudkill. The latter will do 1-2 CON damage per round, no matter what, unless the enemy is immune to poison.

Funny thing about control spells: two of the best ones are evocations. Icy prison (especially the mass version) and scirocco are great even against the wild hunt.

The summoner class is not in game, and no available summoning is close to an eidolon pet. We don't get the planar binding/ally spells or gate in this game, so the uber monsters are out. The best you can do is being a druid with an animal pet which you buff.
Some wanted to go the necromancer route and work with animate dead and other undead. No idea if that works or not - no postings can go either way. A necro would probably start as a cleric, pick up wizard and become a mystic theurge to maximize his undead critters at the cost of the high level spells. A theurge has more spells than other casters past level 9 and at least all of the usual buffs. In theory he could summon undead minion, buff them and let them do the dirty work. I have my doubts about that being practical, though.

[House of Rahl]

my main im hoping to be a damage dealing sorc. but frankly the rule set is so different from baldurs gate im a bit at a loss. i understand i need dex to hit. and it looks like if i wanta land alot of the offensive skills ill also want precise shot and the one that removes the penalty firing into combat.

frankly i dont understand what you mean by add +DC. i duno what DC means outside of rolls required for an event like say a preception check, or a project that you slot an advisor into in your kingdom. im not sure what they have to do with increasing the damage of a spell like fireball but im massively interested in learning. currently i understand spell res. it seems a bit different from baldurs gate but, i at least think i understand it. then there is the will save/dex check depending on the type of offensive spell. im assuming after all that is where your +DC thing comes in for damage. also there is meta magic which sounds great in the generalized description ingame, but no idea how that actually functions in practice.

im not super familiar with feats yet but learning quickly. it looks like ill want the two levels of spell penetration, as well as the 2 to get to ignoring the melee combat attack roll penatly. beyond that..... maybe just focus into the spell school that most of my nukes are coming outa for the will save penalty to target. as for learning all the spells.... ive yet to find a good repherence website with the spells. so most of my knowledge of spells is based on the 2.5 adnd rules. lots of it is outa date.

i realize that was alot of questions. appologize. but thank you very much for all the handy info and keeping me from making a mistake i would have regretted with that inquisitor. ill have to think on a different 6th char. so far im wanting to run the following party. main sylvan sorc (damage based), valerie, amiri, tristian, octavia, and an unknown 6th char.... maybe a cleric herald caller with erastil longbows for the support summons since the game doesnt offer too many front line fighters.

for the sorc im currently debating between human and aasimar musetouched.
str: 8
dex: 16
con: 12
int: 8
wis: 10
cha: 18

if human ill get +2 cha and a feat, if aasimar +2 cha/dex. not sure if the feat is worth the 2 dex or not. either way ill have 20 cha with the bonus and a decent amount of starting spells.

[Morgian]

DC is short for Diffiulty Class. Every task has a DC in Pathfinder. The DC for hitting someone is his AC, but the concept is always the same.

The DC of a spell is what the target has to roll against with his saving throw bonus. The DC of a spell is calculated from a basis of 10 + spell level + casting stat + feat bonus + item bonus.
As example, let's take fireball, a 3rd level spell, which targets Reflex. Your caster uses INT as his stat and has 18 in it. So his basic DC is 10 + 3 + 4 = 17. All targets must roll their reflex save against this number. If the caster takes spell focus (evocation) he gets a +1 feat bonus. And if he uses Fox Cunning (INT +4) he gets another +2 from his INT, which is now 22, for a total of 20.

Then there is another class of spells, which are called rays. They require a ranged touch attack, which is based on DEX, and is against their touch AC. The standard AC is against someone who wants to draw blood. Touch AC is how easy it is to simply touch the target for a long enough moment to deliver the spell. Therefore is armor and shield not counted...it does not matter where you touch him. The point of rays is that they usually allow no saving throw and can crit like all weapons. The crit happens only on a 20 and doubles the damage, but with the feat improved critical you can change that to 19-20. Doesn't seem much, but it is hilarious when it happens at the right time.
If your caster is level 6 he would have BAB 3 and let's say +3 from a DEX of 16. His total bonus is +6, but touch AC is usually between 10 and 20. As a ranged attack it suffers -4 if the target is in melee and sometimes covered by others. Assuming your target has a touch AC of 16, you need to roll 14 on a d20 without precise shot and 10 with. So all casters using rays want precise shot. Unfortunately you have to pick point blank shot first, because it is a prerequisite for the other. It grants +1 to hit within 30, so it isn't completely useless.

Spell resistance is basically AC against spells. You have to "hit" the spell resistance with 1d20 + your caster level. Pallies and other semi-casters have lower caster levels, because they begin in level 4 to use spells. As you can see, they are at a disadvantage against monsters with SR (typically demons and extraplanar monsters).

A sage sorcerer (my favorite) would look something like this:
STR 10
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 10
CHA 10
If I wanted him to make all Persuasion rolls, I would stay with CHA as main stat.
Featwise he gets:
Point blank shot
Precise shot
Metamagic (heighten)
Spellfocus
Greater Spellfocus
Spell penetration
Greater Spell penetration
+ more metamagic or archery feats, if used as such

This is just a basic concept covering an all-purpose caster. When he gets the spell DC bonus from the cIass I choose the same magic I have spellfocus for.
For necros there is a rod and a cloak that raises the DC for necro spells by +2 each.

You can see your own saves, and with Knowledge Nature the numbers of mobs you inspect. That should give you an idea what DC you have to aim for.

[House of Rahl]

tracking. thank you again. if i could trouble you, id like to ask about metamagic and how that actually functions? most of the descriptions say they either extend durations, or 1.5x "effect" and they all say they increase the level of the respective spells. i played with it a bit and just made duplicates since i dont have metamagic but i understand how to make the spells and remove them when i no longer want the custom spell. but i dont understand what the seperate metamagic traits bring to the table so far as blanket stat increases for the spells. also there is 3 slots under teh spell slot. does that mean you can use up to 3 meta magic effects on the same spell? if you do that does the spell level keep increasing. like say magic missile becomes lv 3 if you use one meta magic effect. but does it jump to 5 or more if you add a second or does it only stay at that 3?

[DawgSoldier]

The sage Sorcer is by far the best arcane nuker thats not a prestige class. Elves & Non Heritage Tieflings make the best ones especially if they are mercenary companions. As you can dispence with the charisma stat all together and focus on 18's ion Dex and INT. Elves get the advantage of using the elf weapon prof's but they have that negitive modifier in Con on an already squeshy HP charactor. Tieflings just rock at this subclas in my opinion. You can pull off a 12 18 12 18 10 7 take martial wepons as a feat and mage armor as a spell and blast away with spells and then use a composite bow when you are out of magic.