Where are the dragons, demons and devils?

[neuronfly]

110 hours in the game and I haven't seen a single dragon, demon or devil. Just fighting bandits, feys and wild animals. Very disappointing.

[aramintai]

There is one dragon very late in the game. You can go raid its lair for very sweet loot.
There is also a devil that you can fight in DLC companions quest. And another that you can fight in a quest about Blakemoor grimoire.
And I'm pretty sure there are demonic monsters in the game too, they just aren't exclusively called demons.

[neuronfly]

Originally posted by aramintai:

There is one dragon very late in the game. You can go raid its lair for very sweet loot.
There is also a devil that you can fight in DLC companions quest. And another that you can fight in a quest about Blakemoor grimoire.
And I'm pretty sure there are demonic monsters in the game too, they just aren't exclusively called demons.

What about armies of devils, demons and undead like in Neverwinter Nights 2?

[aramintai]

Originally posted by neuronfly:

What about armies of devils, demons and undead like in Neverwinter Nights 2?

Not every game needs to have the same enemies. This game has a focus on fey enemies because of the plot and believe me - late game fey are very very tough.
But it's not just fey or human enemies in this game. There are also trolls, kobolds, goblins, undead, giants and all sorts of wild monsters.

[neuronfly]

Originally posted by aramintai:

Originally posted by neuronfly:

What about armies of devils, demons and undead like in Neverwinter Nights 2?

Not every game needs to have the same enemies. This game has a focus on fey enemies because of the plot and believe me - late game fey are very very tough.
But it's not just fey or human enemies in this game. There are also trolls, kobolds, goblins, undead, giants and all sorts of wild monsters.

Trolls, kobolds, goblins and giants fall into the wild animals category because they are uncivilized.

[xmd1997]

The game is based on the table top module of the same name and (someone correct me if I'm wrong) as far as I know the module didn't contain any of those creatures.

[Lane]

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Originally posted by aramintai:

Not every game needs to have the same enemies. This game has a focus on fey enemies because of the plot and believe me - late game fey are very very tough.
But it's not just fey or human enemies in this game. There are also trolls, kobolds, goblins, undead, giants and all sorts of wild monsters.

Trolls, kobolds, goblins and giants fall into the wild animals category because they are uncivilized.

Lol this guy... Don't remember dragons or demons building civilizations either, they must be part of wild animal category as well. So don't see why are you complaining.

[Cutlass Jack]

I saw 'Demons and Devils' right from the intro. But she wouldn't join my group until chapter 2. :P

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Originally posted by aramintai:

There is one dragon very late in the game. You can go raid its lair for very sweet loot.
There is also a devil that you can fight in DLC companions quest. And another that you can fight in a quest about Blakemoor grimoire.
And I'm pretty sure there are demonic monsters in the game too, they just aren't exclusively called demons.

What about armies of devils, demons and undead like in Neverwinter Nights 2?

Kingmaker suffers from having a pretty standard setting and cast. It's not a bad game at all, but it doesn't seem to take any risks or get too adventurous. The game world has a kind of cut-rate Forgotten Realms feel to it.

[neuronfly]

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

I saw 'Demons and Devils' right from the intro. But she wouldn't join my group until chapter 2. :P

I am talking about armies of demons and devils like in Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2. Here in this game there is just 1 thiefling companion... thats it.

[neuronfly]

Originally posted by Lane:

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Trolls, kobolds, goblins and giants fall into the wild animals category because they are uncivilized.

Lol this guy... Don't remember dragons or demons building civilizations either, they must be part of wild animal category as well. So don't see why are you complaining.

Demons rule the abyss and devils rule the nine hells. Dragons are very intelligent and live for thousands of years. These 3 species are at the top of the foodchain in D&D.

[aramintai]

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

I saw 'Demons and Devils' right from the intro. But she wouldn't join my group until chapter 2. :P

I am talking about armies of demons and devils like in Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2. Here in this game there is just 1 thiefling companion... thats it.

Why do you want this game to be like NWN? This is not NWN 3, it's a completely different game, it's not even AD&D, but its offshoot called Pathfinder.

[Tanlaus]

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Originally posted by neuronfly:

What about armies of devils, demons and undead like in Neverwinter Nights 2?

Kingmaker suffers from having a pretty standard setting and cast. It's not a bad game at all, but it doesn't seem to take any risks or get too adventurous. The game world has a kind of cut-rate Forgotten Realms feel to it.

I disagree about it being cut rate. I kind of like that there is an overall theme to the problems you are facing and the creatures you run into make sense for the areas they are in.

BG2, which is still probably my favorite crpg, sufferer from the opposite problem. Go the Firekraag’s lair, troll cook in one room, vampires in another, human adventurers in yet another, along with elementals, monsteroue huminoids and the dragon himself. All crammed into one not very large space.

The encounters in Pathfinder make sense for their settings.

And to the OP, yes there are several dungeons with powerful undead. There are daemons, which seem to be the neutral evil version of demons (in Pathfinder there are demons, daemons, and devils; chaotic, neutral, and lawful respectively). And there is definitely a dragon.

[SSJMantis]

Originally posted by neuronfly:

Originally posted by aramintai:

There is one dragon very late in the game. You can go raid its lair for very sweet loot.
There is also a devil that you can fight in DLC companions quest. And another that you can fight in a quest about Blakemoor grimoire.
And I'm pretty sure there are demonic monsters in the game too, they just aren't exclusively called demons.

What about armies of devils, demons and undead like in Neverwinter Nights 2?

About that, have you get yet to chapter 3? Plenty of undead there.

[GreySpectre]

Originally posted by neuronfly:

110 hours in the game and I haven't seen a single dragon, demon or devil. Just fighting bandits, feys and wild animals. Very disappointing.

You must not have played tabletop very much. Encounters with those kinds of powerful enemies are usually meant to be occasional both to increase their meaning and impact and also because constantly dealing with such entities would lead to a dead party quite quickly.

I am a Dungeon Master for my table, and in my last campaign when the party was level 15 one player made a serious misstep with a devil...it cost 3 party members their lives. Only the foolish wish for nonstop encounters with creature that can destroy you easily at any level. They would also lose all of their depth and meaning if they were overly frequent. A good DM knows to pace things well and also to make encounters line up with the campaign so it makes sense.

[Coldhands]

Originally posted by Tanlaus:

Originally posted by Coldhands:

Kingmaker suffers from having a pretty standard setting and cast. It's not a bad game at all, but it doesn't seem to take any risks or get too adventurous. The game world has a kind of cut-rate Forgotten Realms feel to it.

I disagree about it being cut rate. I kind of like that there is an overall theme to the problems you are facing and the creatures you run into make sense for the areas they are in.

I can appreciate encounters that make sense for their setting, but I think it issue here is that the setting is pretty mundane, so most of the enemies you run into tend to be as well. My opinion of Pathfinder in general has always been that it's just a less interesting D&D that never really justified itself, and Kingmaker here isn't really changing my mind on that.
Don't get me wrong, I like this game a lot so far, but I think its biggest weakness is the Pathfinder setting and rule set; makes me wish somebody would make this game, but out of D&D 4e's core adventure path and rules.