Spell Focus and Elemental Focus are trash

[Gonzo]

Tell me if I’m wrong but I’m getting to the conclusion that spending four feats (SF, GSF, EF, GEF) is +4 to DC in total and only on few spells a great waste. Just casting on yourself Eagle’s Splendour (sorcerers) or Fox’s Cunning (wizards) brings back +2DC. I believe there are more ways to improve on that than spending 4 feats that could go to metamagics, Spell Penetrations or Spell Specialization

[Mithrals]

Escrito originalmente por Sotanaht:

I did say "normal play". Solo is not normal, nor is cheating your XP if that's your game. I was entirely correct when I said that.

True that, building a solo character is different from building a non solo character.

Building a DC sorcerer for non solo play I would defenetly used 18 starting stat and relied on greater Shadow Evocation instead. I would not have gotten to 46 Sirocco DC, but rather 44 since I would have been missing the vivisectionist charisma, but to compensate I could put 5 more characters in the party.

Escrito originalmente por Sotanaht:

So the ring of circumstances, which still doesn't work, sacrificing two levels of Sorcerer, and bokken (which doesn't work for me). Also you are level 20, which is impossible through normal play.

Ring of circumstances works if you know how to use it, it is still bugged, but you can use it.

Bokken works, many people have confirmed that, you need to manage your kingdom properly to get him, if your client is bugged and you cannot gain bokken I feel for you. That masterpiece is fantastic.

Solo play is supported in the game as an intended way of playing. It has been programmed into the game to check if the player is playing solo and certan encounters (1 in particular) has been changed to allow the player to progress. It is supported through game options aswell that funneling xp into a single character will not affect how the game treats you in terms of difficulty and achievements.

It is your choice to share xp in a full group and to your inactive compantions. That is how most people choose to play. That is not a problem with the spell focus feats. It also does not mean that saves are too high to hit with spells or that DC's are too hard to stack.

The only thing it means is that you choose to sacrifice 2 levels and gain 5 companions in return. In other words you get an easier early and late game at the cost of a harder midgame. (Very dependant on what build you are using)

Go over my list for charisma and for dc's and ask yourself what bonuses can you get by the start of act 6. GSE Sirocco will get to 44 DC enough to CC mostly anything not immune to it. A heigtened Phantasmal killer will get to 42 DC. Enough to reliably take out a Wild Hunt Monarc even on unfair with a roughly 75% chance.

[Sotanaht]

Escrito originalmente por Mithrals:

Ring of circumstances works if you know how to use it, it is still bugged, but you can use it.

How do you use the Ring of Circumstances then? I have it, could by a second if I wanted, I couldn't get it to work. All of the circumstance abilities (on your abilities tab) have 0 uses even after resting with the ring on. Does it only work on your MC perhaps, because I wanted it for a merc.

The rest of your post, I want to point out that I was one of the first ones in the thread to say that Spell Focus etc was worthwhile for the DC boosts.

[Mithrals]

Escrito originalmente por Sotanaht:

Escrito originalmente por Mithrals:

Ring of circumstances works if you know how to use it, it is still bugged, but you can use it.

How do you use the Ring of Circumstances then? I have it, could by a second if I wanted, I couldn't get it to work. All of the circumstance abilities (on your abilities tab) have 0 uses even after resting with the ring on. Does it only work on your MC perhaps, because I wanted it for a merc.

The rest of your post, I want to point out that I was one of the first ones in the thread to say that Spell Focus etc was worthwhile for the DC boosts.

Ok fair enough, my bad. The thread is getting a few days old by now and it is tiresome to reread everything :) I hope I wasn't being disrespectful.

You equip the ring, then you drag all the abilities you want from your ability bar to your hotbar. Then you save, then you load. After you load you can activate the abilities you now have on your hotbar.
Every time you or the game saves or loads after that you have to deactivate and reactivate those abilities again. Even if they look activated, loading or saving will make them stop working. So click them off then click them back on and they are working again.
You can activate all of them at the same time if you want to, but it only say it should work with 4, so that is what I do. Oh and the +2 to skills doesnt seem to do anything.

[Kyutaru]

Escrito originalmente por Sotanaht:

Escrito originalmente por Kyutaru:

No it isn't, you need to read the entire thread for context. He's using a solo Sorcerer in his play through. It's very easy to get level 20 if you're the only one gaining XP. Keeping your main stat an odd number is also a very common tactic because it means by level 4 you have an immediate +1 bonus, where even numbered people don't see an improvement until level 8. Those even numbered counts also cost more in build points to acquire which can be spent elsewhere. The stat distribution is so tight that there are viable builds around leaving a main stat odd. He is definitely relying on other attributes as a SOLO sorcerer.

I did say "normal play". Solo is not normal, nor is cheating your XP if that's your game. I was entirely correct when I said that.

Anyway, it's common, but that doesn't make it good. I said that in more hybrid-oriented classes it makes sense to sacrifice from your main stat, but in normal play (there's that phrase again) it's bad to assume you will spend much time at level 20 in ANY dnd based game, tabletop or PC. That +1 you get at level 4 is the same +1 you would have had at level 1, and you are 1 behind again at level 8 when the 18-start gets to 20 and you are only just getting to 19. I did say that there were more hybrid-oriented classes that don't mind sacrificing their main stat, but doing it just because of the +1 at level 20 is bad advice for normal play.

You keep throwing around the word normal without so much as a definition. Maxing out your party slots? Using premade characters over generated? Quite a number of normal play variations, especially if you go for the standard four person party that is quite normal in Pathfinder games. It's hardly a cheat to obtain XP at an increased rate when you're burdened by greater challenges.

But chief of all, I think you mistake what min-max builds aim for in terms of viability. The goal is not to select a Ranger who has Favored Enemy Beast simply because you'll use it the most throughout the game. Instead, people often select rare and powerful beings as their Favored Enemy because it's during those encounters that you need every point you can spare. Dragon is an often taken Pathfinder staple while in Kingmaker the Fey will grant you the greatest return in the final chapter. Regardless of how long you spend at level 20, your greatest challenges will be presented there. The goal of min-maxing is never to make the journey to your destination optimal or easy. In fact, player will often suffer through inefficiency and terrifying level ranges purely to accomodate their min-max builds. It's because when you reach the stage of greatest challenge, when every point matters, you are best off utilizing an approach that maximizes your chances for that stage even if earlier ones suffer for it.

In short, that +1 at level 20 makes all the difference for a logical person to go for it rather than wasting a stat point building inefficiently. That's what I consider normal play. Maximizing your advantages for the opurtune moments, not squandering them for early advantages that are unnecessary against trivial content.

[Mithrals]

Escrito originalmente por Kyutaru:

snip...

That was well said.
I point out the same thing that my caster is optimised towards Wild Hunt since the rest of the game is easy enough anyway, next project would probably be against Lantern King.

[naginata]

@Mithrals

Ok which channel do you mean?

And which Sorcerer did you choose?

[Sotanaht]

Escrito originalmente por Mithrals:

Escrito originalmente por Kyutaru:

snip...

That was well said.
I point out the same thing that my caster is optimised towards Wild Hunt since the rest of the game is easy enough anyway, next project would probably be against Lantern King.

Stinking Cloud is all you need to completely neuter the Wild hunt. A Cleric with Holy Aura is also preferable over using Freedom of Movement (freedom doesn't help your pets which get pseudo-confused, but Holy Aura grants immunity to mind effects, including both the paralysis and whatever happens to pets)

[Shadenuat]

Auras do not protect from Wild Gaze.

[Sotanaht]

Escrito originalmente por Shadenuat:

Auras do not protect from Wild Gaze.

I know that Holy Aura prevents the Panic effect from Wild Gaze on Pets/Animals. Holy Aura is a level 8 Cleric spell, the name is somewhat misleading because it's not actually an aura, just a party buff that provides immunity to mind effects (among other effects).

The reason I don't know whether or not Holy Aura's immunity to mind effects blocks Paralysis from Wild Gaze is because all of my party members have Blind fight, because I knew this ♥♥♥♥ was coming.

[Shadenuat]

First of all, idk what panic effect you're talking about. Second, whatever that is, Holy Aura does not protect from anything they do because they are not Evil. That would be Shield of Law. And regardless, I've yet to see those spells do anything of worth endgame. The reasons for that are complicated and it is hard to understand what was intended there by devs and why, but overall breakdown would be something like this:

+Deflection & Saving Throws (Resistance) do not stack with items and other effects

Spell Resistance does not protect against (Su) (Supernatural) abilities in Pathfinder, and Wild Gaze is just that;

Slow effect is Will based, and that they have in tons,

And Mind Affecting is who knows, but Wild Gaze ignores that 100%.

So the only reason you might want to cast these spells is SR, basically.

all of my party members have Blind fight

Yeah that's a great feat to have in this game.

[Sotanaht]

Escrito originalmente por Shadenuat:

First of all, idk what panic effect you're talking about. Second, whatever that is, Holy Aura does not protect from anything they do because they are not Evil. That would be Shield of Law. And regardless, I've yet to see those spells do anything of worth endgame. The reasons for that are complicated and it is hard to understand what was intended there by devs and why.

Wrong again. It does not matter the source. Holy Aura (and shield of law, cloak of chaos, and unholy aura) all provide Immunity to Mind effects against ALL threats. Only 2nd and 4th effect of the spell is against evil/chaotic/lawful/good creatures, Mind Effect Immunity and +4 Deflection AC/Resistance Saves are for everything. It's a level 8 spell, it's supposed to be good ♥♥♥♥.

The SR and the enemy blinded on hit are the VS evil effects.

As for the panic effect, here's the wild gaze text:

A wild hunt monarch has increased control over his gaze. Each round as a free action, he can select any number of visible creatures to exclude from his gaze. Humanoids and monstrous humanoids that fail the save are dazed as well as paralyzed, and animals and magical beasts are panicked. All other creatures are confused and can never receive the result of “act normally”; on such a result, they instead move in a random direction at full speed, as if pursuing an imaginary target. Succeeding at a save against any wild hunt fey’s wild gaze attack (whether it is that of the monarch or any other member of the hunt) does not grant the normal 24 hour period of immunity to the monarch’s wild gaze attack.

Huminoids and monstrous huminiods (that would be the player characters) are paralyized, Animals and Magical Beasts (ie Pets) are Panicked.

Anyway, I'm in the House right this moment and I've been using Holy Aura in order to prevent my pets from running around like stupids. Works pretty well. I only don't know if it blocks paralysis because I'm immune to that either way.

[Shadenuat]

It provides immunity to some mind affecting effects (like Jabberwock burble for example), but not to Wild Gaze.

As for pets - ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, you are right. Last time I fought Hunt with a lot of pets they were Paralyzed like everyone else, but now they are Frightened.

[Sotanaht]

Escrito originalmente por Shadenuat:

It provides immunity to some mind affecting effects (like Jabberwock burble for example), but not to Wild Gaze.

As for pets - ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, you are right. Last time I fought Hunt with a lot of pets they were Paralyzed like everyone else, but now they are Frightened.

Apparently the Wild Gaze Paralysis isn't mind affecting then, but the Frighten most definitely is.

[Shadenuat]

Well, I guess I never noticed because level 1 Supress Fear counters it. No reason to waste 8th level slot for that dude. You should maybe cast it against Knurly Witch (she has Madness Aura) and Jabberwocks, that's mostly only time you want to cast that.

And you should still use Shield of Law, since you're missing on extra Slow effect, because they're not Evil, but Chaotic Neutral.

I ran a merc with +40 knowledge skills against Hunt by the way, and finally read what it states in their abilities. They seem a lot more accurate and close in their behavior to PnP than before, so I guess together with nerf and Inspect they were tweaked, so that's a progress.

Their Gaze states that passing it does not grant immunity to Monarch gaze, but I am not sure there is any temporary immunity mechanic implemented in the game.

They also use Nereid's ability of CHA to AC (even has Nereid description), so no they do not gain CHA to saving throws as one dude was butthurt about (they're just higher than normal lol).

[Sotanaht]

Escrito originalmente por Shadenuat:

Well, I guess I never noticed because level 1 Supress Fear counters it. No reason to waste 8th level slot for that dude. You should maybe cast it against Knurly Witch (she has Madness Aura) and Jabberwocks, that's mostly only time you want to cast that.

And you should still use Shield of Law, since you're missing on extra Slow effect, because they're not Evil, but Chaotic Neutral.

I ran a merc with +40 knowledge skills against Hunt by the way, and finally read what it states in their abilities. They seem a lot more accurate and close in their behavior to PnP than before, so I guess together with nerf and Inspect they were tweaked, so that's a progress.

Their Gaze states that passing it does not grant immunity to Monarch gaze, but I am not sure there is any temporary immunity mechanic implemented in the game.

They also use Nereid's ability of CHA to AC (even has Nereid description), so no they do not gain CHA to saving throws as one dude was butthurt about (they're just higher than normal lol).

Wild Hunt saves are kind of pathetic, I think their best was 19? Or maybe I'm just used to even more rediculous saves by now. as we discussed in this very thread, you can hit up to 44 on a save DC, mid-30s is actually very easy. A mid-30s save dc vs a 17 may not be guaranteed, but it's a safe enough roll to completely shut them down if you use the right spells, Stinking cloud and Sirocco, obviously.