Is fighting defensively bugged?

[Seems]

So I started over, and my level 3 Valerie has an AC of 25 as follows:

Dex: +1
Armor: +7 (banded mail)
Shield: +4 (tower shield)
Armor focus: +1
Shield focus: +1
Dodge: +1 (dodge feat)

However, I also have fighting defensively and combat expertise activated. Both are dodge bonuses, but dodge bonuses stack and I'm not seeing them. I read that they don't activate until you're actually in combat, but even then her character sheet has an AC of 25.

[jazzable]

Character sheet is incomplete/missleading/bugged (your choice of pick)
You´ll have to go through the combat log to see if it´s working.

[Kekuy]

No, dodge bonus is not limited by armor. Dex bonus is, though.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Kekuy:

No, dodge bonus is not limited by armor. Dex bonus is, though.

It seemed to apply to charisma as well for scaled fist. Its inconsistent. It only says dex thats correct. Maybe its showing flat footed stats? Encumbrance? hmm

Anyway i go from 40 to 26AC when equipping armor on a character with +9dex based dodge AC. Theres definitely more that gets limited by it.

[jazzable]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Originally posted by Kekuy:

No, dodge bonus is not limited by armor. Dex bonus is, though.

It seemed to apply to charisma as well for scaled fist. Its inconsistent. It only says dex thats correct. Maybe its showing flat footed stats? Encumbrance? hmm

Don´t know if i understood that right, but monks loosing their AC-Bonus while wearing armor is correct.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by jazzable:

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

It seemed to apply to charisma as well for scaled fist. Its inconsistent. It only says dex thats correct. Maybe its showing flat footed stats? Encumbrance? hmm

Don´t know if i understood that right, but monks loosing their AC-Bonus while wearing armor is correct.

ohh right ofc for the martial limitations, derp.

mhh nevermind then seems good.

[HeLLfire]

Defensive fighting should only be applied when in combat and attacking, as (per Pnp atleast) you take the penalty to hit to the attack and AC bonus (until next round).

This should be why it's not shown in the AC screen - as it's not a permanent buff\debuff even on toggle.
So if you get hit before you get a turn, you'll not get the bonus (and be flatfooted ofc)

There was reported a bug with defensive fighting not being applied if you were lacking dodge feat (unconfirmed personally) but that's not the case for Val anyway.

[corisai]

Plus in combat CE and defensive fighting bonus will activate only when tank get his turn (initially he will be flat-footed).

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by corisai:

flat-footed

This is the only other thing that comes to mind really. Not sure if that actually shows up on the sheet tho. Would be nice to know.

[Biggie]

There is no bug in there and havent been since start, thats one thing they got right.

You loose monk dodge ac from wisdom or charisma if you wear armor.

You dont loose dex bonus to damage and to hit even if you wear full plate but you loose dodge ac.

The armor tells you how much dex you can have, and if your a tower shield figther level 3, you can have 2 more if your wearing a shield, no need for tower shield.

So in a full plate at level 3 as tower shield fighter you can get a total of +3 dodge ac from dexterity.
A normal figther level 3 would get +2
and a paladin or any other class wearing full plate level 3 would get the listed +1.

The armors tell you how much dodge bonus you can have and only fighters can increase this value. About the only thing fighters have in this game is their ability to move unencumbered in medium armor from level 3 and heavy armor from level 7. Its the primary reason you pick fighter.

Back to AC...I think people are trying to find bugs where there are not any and before they think themself and calculate its easier to shout bug:)

The way armor, dodge and dexterity works have been to the tee for me. I can sit down and point on my character and plus it all together and in the combat log it will be exactly that. And been like that more or less since release.

[Biggie]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Originally posted by corisai:

flat-footed

This is the only other thing that comes to mind really. Not sure if that actually shows up on the sheet tho. Would be nice to know.

Thats true flat footed honestly dont say anywhere BUT....

If your flanked without the necessary feats you be counted as flat footed no matter what.

My 15 inquisitor 1 level monk have 57 AC unarmored.
But he is wearing a ring giving him evasion and the necessary stuff.

Prior to this he could have 100 AC but when someone came up behind they would start hitting him anyway.:)

Need that level 4 rogue feat if you want to be ok, hence why as, as an example, when you play Monk you always always go 4 rogue, X Monk.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Waagabond:

If your flanked without the necessary feats you be counted as flat footed no matter what.

NEVER. Flanking never equal flat-footed.

Flanking = enemy will get +2 to melee attack on you and able to do melee sneak attack vs you (ranged too in this game).

Flat-footed = you lose DEX bonus to AC (but not penalty in case of really low DEX) and rogues able to do melee/ranged sneak attack on you.

[Seems]

Originally posted by HeLLfire:

Defensive fighting should only be applied when in combat and attacking, as (per Pnp atleast) you take the penalty to hit to the attack and AC bonus (until next round).

This should be why it's not shown in the AC screen - as it's not a permanent buff\debuff even on toggle.
So if you get hit before you get a turn, you'll not get the bonus (and be flatfooted ofc)

There was reported a bug with defensive fighting not being applied if you were lacking dodge feat (unconfirmed personally) but that's not the case for Val anyway.

I stand corrected! I let the next combat progress several rounds and both fighting defensively and combat expertise activated. (And wow, that battle with the treant bear has really been nerfed! Not that I'm complaining!)

[Biggie]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Waagabond:

If your flanked without the necessary feats you be counted as flat footed no matter what.

NEVER. Flanking never equal flat-footed.

Flanking = enemy will get +2 to melee attack on you and able to do melee sneak attack vs you (ranged too in this game).

Flat-footed = you lose DEX bonus to AC (but not penalty in case of really low DEX) and rogues able to do melee/ranged sneak attack on you.

You tend to loose your dex bonus when your flanked as well without the proper feats.

And as far as I know, you as per rules loose dodge bonus to AC when flanked without the proper feats but not 100% sure, back in 3.5 it was like that. Hence you needed the feats for it.

Basically same thing as flatfooted.

But playing the game I feel its extremly seldom your flatfooted unless feared etc but when attacked from behind your AC lowers dramatically, and in my opinion without the feats you should not get dodge bonus when attacked from behind.

[corisai]

Originally posted by Waagabond:

You tend to loose your dex bonus when your flanked as well without the proper feats.

Not you shouldn't. It isn't 3.5, so your experience with it is irrelevant.

Pathfinder clearly state that flanking is ONLY +2 / - melee/ranged and nothing more (plus rogues can use it to sneak attack).

I have huge doubts that any monsters have teamwork feats to modify this (flanked status).

Originally posted by Waagabond:

but when attacked from behind your AC lowers dramatically

Completely irrelevant in this game. =/

[HeLLfire]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by Waagabond:

You tend to loose your dex bonus when your flanked as well without the proper feats.

Not you shouldn't. It isn't 3.5, so your experience with it is irrelevant.

Pathfinder clearly state that flanking is ONLY +2 / - melee/ranged and nothing more (plus rogues can use it to sneak attack).

I have huge doubts that any monsters have teamwork feats to modify this (flanked status).

Originally posted by Waagabond:

but when attacked from behind your AC lowers dramatically

Completely irrelevant in this game. =/

Correct - Flanking gives +2 to and enables sneak attack. Flanking by itself does not make the defender flat-footed. (Unless the defender also was totally unaware of the flanker)