Are all the royal artisans evil and lawless [spoilers]?

[치 The Spearman 치]

So, I just realized that I can't complete the quests of the 3 artisans I found so far with my LN character.

I hauled a halfling mage off to jail for smuggling before realising she was an artisan, refused to do Bokken's quest for his own good, and now I'm at the boss dialogue of Varrsk's quest and am about to turn him in.

Are there any artisans that aren't terrible?

[Mauman]

the elf, the half-orc, and the halfing are the only really evil/lawless ones. The rest are pretty law-abiding decent(ish) folk. I kept them all (Schizoland the Neutral kingdom welcomes all). Though the half-orc one is kinda interesting.

Bokken's bid into mad sciencistry non-withstanding :P

incidently - two out of 3 of those are in same town/region. Area must be a magnet for jerks :P

[climbingeastofwinter]

Originally posted by Mauman:

incidently - two out of 3 of those are in same town/region. Area must be a magnet for jerks :P

And we're made king/queen the of jerks, so what does that say about us? :)

[Mauman]

Originally posted by climbingeastofwinter:

Originally posted by Mauman:

incidently - two out of 3 of those are in same town/region. Area must be a magnet for jerks :P

And we're made king/queen the of jerks, so what does that say about us? :)

thinking about the artisans reminded me of a very tiny bug...one that I hope will someday be fixed but could entirely live without it (or would rather have a zillion other things fixed first).

The clothing dude is still kneeling in front of the guard that was accosting him at the first time I went into that particular town. His quest is done, he has his shop, and he's fully functional in talking to him....but it's weird walking in that town and still seeing him like that :P

Like I said, a VERY minor bug/oversight....but still odd.

[dwarfpcfan]

the orc is evil and the elf swordsmith is a jerk but that's about it. Booken testing a potion is listed as an evil choice but really shouldn't be. The half elf is good all the way and the dwarf smith is strictly lawful neutral.

[Dalaule]

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

the orc is evil and the elf swordsmith is a jerk but that's about it. Booken testing a potion is listed as an evil choice but really shouldn't be. The half elf is good all the way and the dwarf smith is strictly lawful neutral.

Some of Bokken's choices are evil (testing unknown potion on the dog), but the wererat situation can be solved Lawfully Good, I think. So it all depends on how much your hero values "Science"!

The half-orc I think is more chaotic? You can also solve this quest without going into evil-ness if you just slay the Stranger without asking her who she is. Once you know, the cat is out of the bag, however.

The elven swordsmith is no way to sort of without dipping into evil, except for banishing her straight out of the gate.

[dwarfpcfan]

Originally posted by Dalaule:

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

the orc is evil and the elf swordsmith is a jerk but that's about it. Booken testing a potion is listed as an evil choice but really shouldn't be. The half elf is good all the way and the dwarf smith is strictly lawful neutral.

Some of Bokken's choices are evil (testing unknown potion on the dog), but the wererat situation can be solved Lawfully Good, I think. So it all depends on how much your hero values "Science"!

The half-orc I think is more chaotic? You can also solve this quest without going into evil-ness if you just slay the Stranger without asking her who she is. Once you know, the cat is out of the bag, however.

The elven swordsmith is no way to sort of without dipping into evil, except for banishing her straight out of the gate.

The game says some of these choices are evil but they shouldn't be. Animal testing is not evil, it's a necessary part of safety procedures and research in science, the fact that you get a lawful good choice afterward to test in on a wererat, who are actually sentient. Only shows how the writting makes no sense and is illogical at times.

The elf didn't do anything evil, her apprentice is the evil one making cursed weapons. The fact that it is listed as a lawful evil choice to side with the elf when you are just honoring a deal done in good faith with someone who committed no crime is also incorrect writing on the part of Owlcat. simply innacurate

The orce was a bandit raider and thief, he's asking you to murder a paladin. yes he's evil.

[Mauman]

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

Originally posted by Dalaule:

Some of Bokken's choices are evil (testing unknown potion on the dog), but the wererat situation can be solved Lawfully Good, I think. So it all depends on how much your hero values "Science"!

The half-orc I think is more chaotic? You can also solve this quest without going into evil-ness if you just slay the Stranger without asking her who she is. Once you know, the cat is out of the bag, however.

The elven swordsmith is no way to sort of without dipping into evil, except for banishing her straight out of the gate.

The game says some of these choices are evil but they shouldn't be. Animal testing is not evil, it's a necessary part of safety procedures and research in science, the fact that you get a lawful good choice afterward to test in on a wererat, who are actually sentient. Only shows how the writting makes no sense and is illogical at times.

The elf didn't do anything evil, her apprentice is the evil one making cursed weapons. The fact that it is listed as a lawful evil choice to side with the elf when you are just honoring a deal done in good faith with someone who committed no crime is also incorrect writing on the part of Owlcat. simply innacurate

The orce was a bandit raider and thief, he's asking you to murder a paladin. yes he's evil.

ok....whether or not Bokkens' left field animal testing is evil is not something to really debate, it's at least unhinged.

The wererats are evil, thus testing on them might not be as bad in the grand karma scheme....though it is still sketchy. All said and done though Bokken comes to his senses eventually.

The elf - did you even listen to the apprentice? The elf is a ginourmous Jackass who went and deliberately did a bad thing to the apprentice's dad. The apprentice was in the wrong but at that point keeping your deal with the elf is like keeping a deal with a devil - a LE act through and through. A lesser evil is still evil in Pafthfinder.

The orc is evil, or at least was evil. You don't kill a paladin though, it's not that cut and dry (inquisitor != paladin).

[dwarfpcfan]

Originally posted by Mauman:

ok....whether or not Bokkens' left field animal testing is evil is not something to really debate, it's at least unhinged.

The wererats are evil, thus testing on them might not be as bad in the grand karma scheme....though it is still sketchy.

The elf - did you even listen to the apprentice? The elf is a ginourmous Jackass who went and deliberately did a bad thing to the apprentice's dad. The apprentice was in the wrong but at that point keeping your deal with the elf is like keeping a deal with a devil - a LE act through and through. A lesser evil is still evil in Pafthfinder.

The orc is evil, or at least was evil.

Animal testing is not unhinged, it's part of necessary medical research in the real world, research that produces cures fordangerous diseases and advance medicine. He's proposing he discovered a rejuvinating potion, again a clear benefit to people who are suffering. So no, saying it's evil to test it on a dog is BS.

Bokken acting unhinged and obssesive is true, but that is seperate from the morality of testing a potion on an animal.

If anything testing on animal first should be purely alignment neutral (as in no alignment tied to it). It's standard research rational practice.

Testing on wererats being good is also BS, they are sentient, evil or not and unlike say evil outsiders, while were-rats are for the most part evil they are not strictly evil always. Plus your MC forces the potion down their throat, after beating them to near death with sharp implements. That is in no way a good alignment choice.

And as for that apprentice. Again I call BS, that dude clearly untrustworthy and for all we know, the elf was just a better sword smith and drove the apprentice's father out of business because the man couldn't compte with him. All we have is the word of an evil apprentice who sells cursed weapons to innocent people. The elf, while an ass sure, did nothing evil that we observed. If anything, because the apprentice asks you to betray the elf and force the elf to serve him as an apprentice (read the dialogue) it just tells you this apprentice is not someone who's word you should trust. Again bs on this being a LE choice to honor the elf smith's deal.

[ericsaxon35]

Originally posted by Mauman:

(inquisitor != paladin).

Well, which is it? Inquisitor or Paladin? Because they are NOT the same. Inquisitors or Inquisitioners are religious zealots, who maim, torture, and burn at the stake, anyone they think is a heretic.

Paladins just lop off heads...

[Zengar]

For a game about heroes, this game is particulary absent with them. Ekun and to a minor degree Kersten, are the only characters in the entire game I can think of as heroic.

[Lane]

This is rich coming from a kleptomaniac grabbing anything and everything lying about...

[dfedwards2001]

Originally posted by Zengar:

For a game about heroes, this game is particulary absent with them. Ekun and to a minor degree Kersten, are the only characters in the entire game I can think of as heroic.

Octavia and Linzi constantly strive to do the right thing. And Varn is a good dude.

[Myrryr]

Originally posted by Zengar:

For a game about heroes, this game is particulary absent with them. Ekun and to a minor degree Kersten, are the only characters in the entire game I can think of as heroic.

You don't play many tabletop RPG's do you? Adventurers have another, more accurate, name. They're called Murder-Hobos.

[Shotagonist]

Originally posted by Zengar:

For a game about heroes, this game is particulary absent with them. Ekun and to a minor degree Kersten, are the only characters in the entire game I can think of as heroic.

Dude your avatar literally joined a rebellion because he thought Earth didn't have enough weapons to fight aliens, willingly siding with the guy who wanted to take over earth.

[Zengar]

Originally posted by Myrryr:

Originally posted by Zengar:

For a game about heroes, this game is particulary absent with them. Ekun and to a minor degree Kersten, are the only characters in the entire game I can think of as heroic.

You don't play many tabletop RPG's do you? Adventurers have another, more accurate, name. They're called Murder-Hobos.

I think I play them more than you, if the only thing you play is murder hobbos. Do you just sit and kill monsters and loot for hours and ignore the narrative? If you are a murder hobbo in my game, you are a criminal and the world will treat you like one.