How to improve Natural Attacks?

[KOHb]

While druid in shape form your attack become natural: claws, bite, tongue. etc.
Which feats and 'weapon' expertises work with them?
Weapon finesse? Fencing grace? Others?

For example if I want dex shape druid.

[Mr Fred]

Finesse work, I wouldnt bother with fencing grace which work but you would have to take it twice for claw and bite (slam for elemental form would require a 3rd) because you should rather wait for the amulet that does the same thing for all your natural attacks.

[dfedwards2001]

You should be able to take weapon focus/improved crit in various natural attacks ie bite/claw. Weapon finesse should work as all natural weapons are considered light.

Your main booster though is an Amulet of Many Fists which does come in agile versions. Can't recall when you get the first one though.

[Edstyles]

The druid himself has a buff .Maybe Dragon disciple has something of interest since they use claws

[Marcos_DS]

There is a nice cape that adds 1d6 cold to bite attacks and a free trip attempt.

[KOHb]

Originally posted by Mr Fred:

Finesse work, I wouldnt bother with fencing grace which work but you would have to take it twice for claw and bite (slam for elemental form would require a 3rd) because you should rather wait for the amulet that does the same thing for all your natural attacks.

Would you suggest any multiclass?
Like vivisector or maybe monk?

Monk style for fist fight work for natural attacks?

[Mr Fred]

Maybe a single lvl of monk for extra ac and flurry "should" work in shapeshift from what ive read and how it behave in other games like it but I cant say I personnally tried yet in this game.

Reminder and sad thing is that you need to be LN for that so you dont benefit from either monk robes that require LG or LE.

I wouldnt add more class of anything else though, your still a caster. I'm still considering you want to primarily be a druid as said in OP.

A more power gaming build could be something like 16 vivec/2monk/2paladin and use feral mutagen or even beast/elemental potions for naturals attacks.

[Sev]

Okay this is just a theory craft build I am making. I don't know if this is how it has been implemented in game but in theory should work.

With Wild shape and polymorph builds you want to take a dip into Monk.

AC and Flurry are the obvious ones but also access to Dragon style. Dragon style basically adds 1 1/2 strength scaling to your first unarmed attack a round. Natural attacks count as unarmed. Dragon Ferocity (feat upgrade from Dragon Style) makes your first attack in a round get a double str modifier and all other attacks 1 1/2 strength scaling.

So say you Wild Shape into a Bear that has 3 primary attacks (1 bite 2 claws). With Dragon Ferocity your Bite attack (always goes first) with get double strength scaling on the Bite and then 1 1/2 strength scaling on the Claws.

Power attack also applies 1 1/2 bonus on primary attacks.

Seems to be working too since pets with Primary natural attacks and power attack get +3 damage per attack.

Have to test Dragon Ferocity.

[thunda]

Originally posted by Sev:

Okay this is just a theory craft build I am making. I don't know if this is how it has been implemented in game but in theory should work.

With Wild shape and polymorph builds you want to take a dip into Monk.

AC and Flurry are the obvious ones but also access to Dragon style. Dragon style basically adds 1 1/2 strength scaling to your first unarmed attack a round. Natural attacks count as unarmed. Dragon Ferocity (feat upgrade from Dragon Style) makes your first attack in a round get a double str modifier and all other attacks 1 1/2 strength scaling.

So say you Wild Shape into a Bear that has 3 primary attacks (1 bite 2 claws). With Dragon Ferocity your Bite attack (always goes first) with get double strength scaling on the Bite and then 1 1/2 strength scaling on the Claws.

Power attack also applies 1 1/2 bonus on primary attacks.

Seems to be working too since pets with Primary natural attacks and power attack get +3 damage per attack.

Have to test Dragon Ferocity.

Natural attacks are NOT unarmed attacks. Natural attacks (claws,bite,gore dont get any help from anything related to unarmed stuff). Theyre separate things. Thats why Flurry doesnt work with natural attacks, only unarmed attacks, close weapons and monk weapons.

[Doombringer]

Originally posted by Sev:

Natural attacks count as unarmed.

No. You are wrong. Monk stuff, like the robes bonus, do *NOT* affect natural attacks.

Magic Fang stacks with Greater Magic Fang, so druid can +6 their natural attacks, then add the Amulet of Mighty/Agile Fists for another +5 or +4 = +11 (or +10 Agile).