Metamagic: "maximizing spell" - how does it work?

[DitoLoco]

Do i have to apply it to all spells?
What are the set backs?


How does metamagic highten spell works? (what does it really do - i apply it and level of spells doesnt change ...)

[DodgeyB]

You choose a spell to maximize, if you're using the feat normally. It increases the spell level so it uses a higher level slot in your spellbook as a wizard, when you cast said spell it doesnt roll damage it does the maximum possible still subject to saves

Heighten spell increases the effective level of a spell up, so things like save DC's etc are increased so a fireball heightened to 5 would be DC 10 +5 +int mod to save against as opposed to DC 10 +3 + int

[Telmorial]

It maximizes the dice rolls of the spell damage. EG. If the spell usually does 5D6 damage, a maximized version will do 30 damage.

How you use it depends, as there are various ways.
1. There are feats; where you need to memorize a spell a number of levels above the normal spell level. For Maximize, I think it's 3 or 4 levels (can't remember which). So you'de need to memorize a Fireball (a 3rd level spell) into your 6th level slot.

2. Items; These are simpler, you just click the maximized spell rod item in the item toolbar. This is a toggle. Then every spell you cast will be maximized. The rods I've seen so far only work 3 times a day (for balance reasons of course) and only for 3rd level spells or below. But I believe there will be more powerful rods later.

3. The universal Wizard (IE non specialist) can cast various spells as maximized (and other metas) X number of times per day (more the higher the Wizard level is).

EDIT: I just read you also asked about Heighten. This is different from maximized. See Jotunblut's explanation.

[DitoLoco]

Well when i add spells the result spell level is the same - for highten spell.

regarding maximizing spell - it does not change the level of spell either .... So in this case its best to maximize all spells and have the highest rolls?

[DitoLoco]

I have universal wizard

[DitoLoco]

and how do i know how many times a day i can cast maximized spell? where is this information?

[Ghiron]

I haven't tried metamagic in the PC game yet, so I don't if it's working properly; but here's how it works:
Maximize spell makes all dice for the spell roll the maximum number. So if you cast a maximized fireball for 10d6 damage, it deals 60 damage. The drawback is that maximized spells 3 levels higher than the original spell. Fireball is level 3, maximized fireball is level 6. The save DC on maximized fireball is still calculated as if it was a 3rd level spell even though it is cast with a 6th level spell slot.

Heighten Spell let's you cast a spell at higher level, but also increases the save DC +1 per level you increase it. So if you cast a heightened fireball as a level 6 spell, it requires a 6th level spell slot to cast, and still does the same damage, but the save DC is calculated as if it was a 6th level spell (+3 to the save DC).

Metamagic feats are additive. If you combine Heighten Spell and Maximize Spell on fireball to get a maximized fireball with +3 DC, it is not cast as 6th level spell, it's cast as a 9th level spell.

Basically Heighten Spell is useless in the PC game. Don't take it.

[Telmorial]

I don't know where it displays this (I don't have a universal Wizard). I think it shows how it works in your character sheet. It's something like; you get a point every level above level 8. Lesser meta feats (extend, the range one) only use 1 point. So let's say you have 4 points, then you can cast 4 extends per day.

More power metas (maximize etc) costs more points, so less times per day.

Re heighten, I'm not 100% sure but maybe that's a bug? I thought the whole point of heighten was to increase it's level. Maybe the spell level isn't changing but the DCs are being increased?
You can check in the combat log (on the line showing the 'spell has hit'...hover over it then right click).

[Naked Granny]

Originally posted by Jotunblut:

You choose a spell to maximize, if you're using the feat normally. It increases the spell level so it uses a higher level slot in your spellbook as a wizard, when you cast said spell it doesnt roll damage it does the maximum possible still subject to saves

Heighten spell increases the effective level of a spell up, so things like save DC's etc are increased so a fireball heightened to 5 would be DC 10 +5 +int mod to save against as opposed to DC 10 +3 + int

Save DC is the only thing that's altered by Heighten.

The more subtle, meta-game functionality of the feat is that it allows you to cast more copies of a given spell than you could otherwise - by using the spell slots of a different spell level.

For example, if you only have three slots per day in Spell Level 3 but you want to be able to cast four Fireballs, you could heighten one to use a Spell Level 4 slot instead. The Save DC is increased, yes, but that matters more in the very late game and is a bit situational since most high level offensive spells already obsolete lower level versions.

There are a few that can be worth it to Heighten, though: the ones that don't have similar versions. Like Flesh To Stone, Slow, Undeath To Death, Blind and Bestow Curse. I wouldn't personally waste it on a nuke like Fireball, really.

Originally posted by Szalbierz:

and how do i know how many times a day i can cast maximized spell? where is this information?

You can cast a Maximized spell as many times per day as you can prepare one (since you're a wizard).

Metamagic Rods are items with a limited number of "uses" per day, but if you are using the feat, you can fill your spell slots up with nothing but metamagic-augmented spells if you can or want to.

[DitoLoco]

I already took it.

However, when i am in my spell book and i do apply "maximinizing spell" it shows which level the spell has after meta. However, my wizard is only allowed to cast level 3 spells - maybe bc of that it shows level after maximizing as 3rd (instead of 6th - for fireball).

Its either bug or it does nothing yet ....

However, even spell level 1 maximilized shows as level 1 (magic missile) which suggests there is not change a level of the cast spell at all ....

[Naked Granny]

Originally posted by Szalbierz:

I already took it.

However, when i am in my spell book and i do apply "maximinizing spell" it shows which level the spell has. However, my wizard is only allowed to cast level 3 spells - maybe bc of that it shows level after maximizing as 3rd (instead of 6th - for fireball).

Its either bug or it does nothing yet ....

However, even spell level 1 maximilized shows as level 1 (magic missile) which suggests there is not change a level of the cast spell at all ....

When using a Metamagic feat to alter your spells, it increases the level of the spell slot that the spell requires to be prepared in.

In other words, you can't augment your highest level spells with the feat because you don't have higher level spell slots to prepare them into.

If you are a level 5 or 6 Wizard, you don't have Spell Level 4 spell slots available yet. You can't Empower or Maximize your Fireballs yet... but you can Extend your Shield spell - because that would only bump from SL1 to SL2. Because Extend only increases the spell's required spell level by +1.

This is a major reason to bother with the Metamagic Rods - because if you use one, then you don't have to burn up a higher level spell slot. You just toggle the rod "on" and it will automatically augment your next spell(s) without costing you more spell slots. Or a feat slot. But it does cost money and rods do have their limits (you need more powerful rods to affect higher level spells) and they only have a limited number of uses per day.

And sometimes you do want to alter the level of the slot a spell occupies...

Originally posted by Szalbierz:

However, even spell level 1 maximilized shows as level 1 (magic missile) which suggests there is not change a level of the cast spell at all ....

That's because it **is** still a level 1 spell. Maximize Spell does not alter the **actual** spell level of the spell.

It only makes it "cost" more by requiring a higher level spell slot to prepare the spell in. Maximize does not change the save DC of a spell and won't make it function as if it were a higher level spell for the purpose of penetrating Globes Of Invulnerability or Spell Turnings, for example.

[jazzable]

Originally posted by Szalbierz:

I already took it.

However, when i am in my spell book and i do apply "maximinizing spell" it shows which level the spell has after meta. However, my wizard is only allowed to cast level 3 spells - maybe bc of that it shows level after maximizing as 3rd (instead of 6th - for fireball).

Its either bug or it does nothing yet ....

However, even spell level 1 maximilized shows as level 1 (magic missile) which suggests there is not change a level of the cast spell at all ....

A macimized lvl 1 spell would become a lvl 4 spell; see the problem?
All you can propably maximize at the moment are cantrips.

[DitoLoco]

I just did a test:

i put highten on magic spell and its level remains 1 and i put four of those spells to memorized by my wizard

i put maximize on cure light wound for my cleric and it still shows as level spell 1 and uses slot from spells from level 1 - i have four of them memorized

is that ok?

[DitoLoco]

oh

Originally posted by jazzable:

Originally posted by Szalbierz:

I already took it.

However, when i am in my spell book and i do apply "maximinizing spell" it shows which level the spell has after meta. However, my wizard is only allowed to cast level 3 spells - maybe bc of that it shows level after maximizing as 3rd (instead of 6th - for fireball).

Its either bug or it does nothing yet ....

However, even spell level 1 maximilized shows as level 1 (magic missile) which suggests there is not change a level of the cast spell at all ....

A macimized lvl 1 spell would become a lvl 4 spell; see the problem?
All you can propably maximize at the moment are cantrips.

hahahaha ok i got it thank you guys !!!!