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Myst Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:25pm
Start of game is stupid. Why do you start with two squishy characters as companions......
I'm playing on the game mode where you can't save. I keep dying on the intro because we run into a bunch of archers and assassins. I have chosen to play a cleric. That means we start with three squishy characters and no tanks. I can't even heal the undead person who joins your team, because it does damage to her. Meaning she just stays on 1 hp. Healing pots don't work on her either.

I've died like three times in the damn tutorial..... then it makes me start the whole thing over again. Beyond stupid. Of course, when I play as a warrior of any type I easily make it through, because the squad actually works well together. 1 tank, 1 buffer, and 1 mage...
Last edited by Myst; Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:26pm
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Originally posted by Jake78N:
Also, one thing about Pathfinder/D&D (well, except for D&D 4), is that you can't plan on using a caster that way. You get few spells per day in general in these games. Your spells won't carry you through multiple fights alone, definitly not early on. Your summoner-healer needs to have a reliable way to contribute, because when you've spent your summon spells.. well.. that was one encounter, what will you do for the next? You can't rest after each encounter, because then you will run out of time. Yes, this game is timed.

So, for your summoner cleric build you basically have two choises.
One is the traditional Cleric who also is a frontline fighter; mace and armor as it were. That is a WIS, CON, STR build. Yes, drop a little bonus into CHR. You can even take Skill Focus - Persuation for an added +3 there. If you are playing human, since I assume you don't want the Dwarf CHR stat dive, you still have one other feat slot and aren't that much worse off.

The other is to go for a completely different Cleric build, an Archetype called Ecclesitheurge. This is an oddball. He doesn't wear armor, but you can have him run high DEX which makes him harder to hit and work well with a ranged weapon and it is one of the most casty Cleric types there is. But this one IS squishy early on. The point with this one seems to be that he isn't meant to be a front liner, so abilities can be focused heavily on DEX and WIS (There is an Aasimar Heritage you can choose with +2 to DEX and WIS btw.) How easy it is to actually play this particular class... eh, not so much, but it does seem to fit the idea you have better than the normal Cleric, especially as it actually let you hit something with a ranged weapon. Just remember that Ecclesitheurge doesn't wear ANY armor... his spellcasting dies if you don, so don't spend your feats on that with this class.

And you will level; even a +3 is a fine stat to start out with, and even +2s. There's plenty of feats and stuff to help you get better. A die roll difference of 1 or 2 in the total scheme of things... that's just 5% diff in chance per point. Frequently, if you're failing against an enemy repeatedly, it isn't that 1 point's fault. More than likely it stems from an enemy that can't be beaten the way you're trying to do it, or sometimes... as you found out, a massively bad build. Most often you need to do much more than just attack stuff. Buff the party, debuff the enemy, make the tank's AC fly through the roof while you figure out exactly how to gimp the monster enough to actually hit it.

Dumping STR... you are aware that STR decides how much your character can carry before he becomes exhausted, right? I mean... even from a loot perspective that is a bad move. My general advice with these rules, would be to avoid going below 10 in abilities in general if you can, because you tend to find a way to regret it. An ability that drops to zero will see you dead... and this game is lousy with things that can will mess with your stats.

And do play through with a difficulty setting you can save on when you get to know the game. There are so many choices to make... so many bad build choices to make.. that I would really advice making a save before leveling up, at least until you feel you really know the system.

I hope you find your path and can enjoy this game, because this is a gateway drug to PnP games :P Best of luck!
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Showing 1-15 of 70 comments
Kommissar K Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:26pm 
Maybe lower the difficulty until you're used to the system? Note that the default setting is described as not being the right choice for people unfamiliar with Pathfinder.

Also, cleric can wear medium armor, I'd hardly call them "squishy."
Last edited by Kommissar K; Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:28pm
#1
Iridescence Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:28pm 
If you're not familliar with the game you probably shouldn't be playing on iron man mode. The tutorial is exremely easy compared to the rest of the game.

The undead person can heal herself with inflict light wounds.
#2
Myst Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:29pm 
Lol, I just tried to play through the tutorial again and died on the first room with 2 archers and 1 assassin... This is so stupid..... Why am I getting punished for trying to play as a cleric. Obviously the party with no tank and 3 spellcasters is going to be destroyed by archers and assassins. What a dumb start to the game.
Last edited by Myst; Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:30pm
#3
Riftwalker Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:33pm 
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/7

I'll just leave this here. (use it on your non-optimal allies)



Originally posted by Myst:
Lol, I just tried to play through the tutorial again and died on the first room with 2 archers and 1 assassin... This is so stupid..... Why am I getting punished for trying to play as a cleric. Obviously the party with no tank and 3 spellcasters is going to be destroyed by archers and assassins. What a dumb start to the game.

oh, i usually don't have a problem killing them. of course i tend to make bad touch casters and so they have a dcent amounbt of strength and con.

ALWAYS give your characters at least 14 con btw.
Last edited by Riftwalker; Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:34pm
#4
Iridescence Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:34pm 
you're not punished. Clerics are strong early on. either you have difficulty turned up too high or you are simply using terrible tactics. With medium armor and heals you should be able to "tank" fine for the tutorial until you get Jaethal, Harrim and Valarie who are also durable.

Last edited by Iridescence; Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:34pm
#5
Locklave Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:34pm 
One of my first characters got wiped in the libary room, that's the second fight btw on normal settings.

Starting fresh characters with squishies is poor design and shows that a lack of thought was put into it. Don't care if it rarely happens, it should not happen.
#6
Myst Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:35pm 
Originally posted by Iridescence:
you're not punished. Clerics are strong early on. either you have difficulty turned up too high or you are simply using terrible tactics. With medium armor and heals you should be able to "tank" fine for the tutorial until you get Jaethal, Harrim and Valarie who can are also durable.


What tactics should I be using then. I've tried a bunch of different paths. If I use my buffer to daze, my healer to attack with bow when not healing, and my mage to cast spells I still die.

My healer also burns through like 3 heals on the library room, because I keep only healing for 1 hp...
#7
Riftwalker Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:36pm 
Originally posted by Locklave:
One of my first characters got wiped in the libary room, that's the second fight btw on normal settings.

Starting fresh characters with squishies is poor design and shows that a lack of thought was put into it. Don't care if it rarely happens, it should not happen.

if you die a lot in the tutorial your character just won't make it in the following chapters... sorry to say. you need to build characters who have some defensive stats for one, so they can handle being in melee for a bit.
#8
Myst Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:36pm 
Originally posted by Riftwalker:
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/7

I'll just leave this here. (use it on your non-optimal allies)



Originally posted by Myst:
Lol, I just tried to play through the tutorial again and died on the first room with 2 archers and 1 assassin... This is so stupid..... Why am I getting punished for trying to play as a cleric. Obviously the party with no tank and 3 spellcasters is going to be destroyed by archers and assassins. What a dumb start to the game.

oh, i usually don't have a problem killing them. of course i tend to make bad touch casters and so they have a dcent amounbt of strength and con.

ALWAYS give your characters at least 14 con btw.


Okay, I have 12 con, but I can make a new character with 14 con instead. I don't think it will help that much though :/...
#9
Myst Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:37pm 
Originally posted by Riftwalker:
Originally posted by Locklave:
One of my first characters got wiped in the libary room, that's the second fight btw on normal settings.

Starting fresh characters with squishies is poor design and shows that a lack of thought was put into it. Don't care if it rarely happens, it should not happen.

if you die a lot in the tutorial your character just won't make it in the following chapters... sorry to say. you need to build characters who have some defensive stats for one, so they can handle being in melee for a bit.


I see what you are saying, but part of the reason this is happening is that we don't have any tanks.

We have three spell casters. We don't even have a rogue to agility tank! Consider that the usual counter to spell casters are archers and assassins. Those are the main enemies we run into...
Last edited by Myst; Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:38pm
#10
Riftwalker Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:38pm 
Originally posted by Myst:
Originally posted by Iridescence:
you're not punished. Clerics are strong early on. either you have difficulty turned up too high or you are simply using terrible tactics. With medium armor and heals you should be able to "tank" fine for the tutorial until you get Jaethal, Harrim and Valarie who can are also durable.


What tactics should I be using then. I've tried a bunch of different paths. If I use my buffer to daze, my healer to attack with bow when not healing, and my mage to cast spells I still die.

My healer also burns through like 3 heals on the library room, because I keep only healing for 1 hp...

don't use the heals after the library, use the potions the bandits have.

early clerics won't heal very well, or consistently anyway. focus your spells on non healing ones since they can be spontanteously cast as healing spells anyway. (the little arrow above the spell)
#11
Py Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:38pm 
I disagree that the tutorial is easy compared to the rest of the game, particularly on higher difficulties. You have far fewer options at low levels, and if you're playing some kind of arcane spellcaster you need to roll well to win some of the early fights with PC, Linzi + Jubilost. Admittedly, the early enemies are squishy enough that some save scumming will see you through until you have Harrim/Valerie.
#12
jaypob Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:39pm 
I ran a cleric and had no problem. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Design seems fine to me.
#13
Myst Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:39pm 
Originally posted by Py:
I disagree that the tutorial is easy compared to the rest of the game, particularly on higher difficulties. You have far fewer options at low levels, and if you're playing some kind of arcane spellcaster you need to roll well to win some of the early fights with PC, Linzi + Jubilost. Admittedly, the early enemies are squishy enough that some save scumming will see you through until you have Harrim/Valerie.


I can't save scum because I turned on the mode where I can't make my own saves. Also, on that topic the tutorial doesn't even have checkpoints, so if you make it to the end and die you have to start all over.... Waste of time.
#14
Kyutaru Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:39pm 
I think your first problem is expecting there to be a tank. This is not like other RPGs. Fighters aren't tanks so much as juggernauts of melee destruction that outdamage even wizards. In fact, if you wanted to build a theoretically high AC, you're better off being an unarmored Monk that dodges everything.

The game gives you early potions and scrolls to use. Use them. They provide necessary buffs and crowd control to get through the content. Yes, the assassins being rogues are going to vaporize casters. Unless you put them sleep or blind them with colors.

Oh, and Jaethal is your first "tank". She's literally immortal, immune to most negative effects, and can self heal.
#15
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Date Posted: Oct 22, 2018 @ 1:25pm
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