Immunity to Sneak Attack?

[Entropy]

I heard that the only things immune to sneak attack in PF(tabletop) are elementals, incorporeal creatures, oozes, and proteans. Is this rule the same in this videogame?

[corisai]

Even incorporeal creatures aren't immune - you need special enchantment (ghost touch) vs them and with it they will receive sneak attack damage.

I can't say about last Acts - but yes, game seem to follow rules exactly about it.

[Entropy]

OK thanks corisai, I appreciate the info!

[climbingeastofwinter]

Characters who have unlocked improved uncanny dodge and with sufficient class levels in the unlocking classes cannot be flanked and cannot be the target of sneak attack except by a rogue with four more class levels than the sum of the class levels the target has in classes granting uncanny dodge, if it's implemented along the lines of pen and paper rules.

[corisai]

Originally posted by climbingeastofwinter:

Characters who have unlocked improved uncanny dodge and with sufficient class levels in the unlocking classes cannot be flanked and cannot be the target of sneak attack except by a rogue with four more class levels than the sum of the class levels the target has in classes granting uncanny dodge, if it's implemented along the lines of pen and paper rules.

No. They only cannot being flanked, but they can be victim of sneak attack - just if you will trigger it NOT by flanking. No amount of uncanny dodge will save you from being paralyzed & then murdered by rogue, or being ambushed by invisible rogue.

This in game too, but amount of high-level rogues&barbs isn't high.

[Entropy]

thanks again for the additional info corisai!

[[TGC] MadGod]

Originally posted by corisai:

No. They only cannot being flanked, but they can be victim of sneak attack - just if you will trigger it NOT by flanking. No amount of uncanny dodge will save you from being paralyzed & then murdered by rogue, or being ambushed by invisible rogue.

This in game too, but amount of high-level rogues&barbs isn't high.

Being helpless from paralyzation is correct. Every attack will be a sneak attack. Invis is wrong..

Uncanny dodge protects you from being sneak attacked while the rogue is invisible or you are flat-footed, since you no longer lose your dex bonus and no longer are flat-footed. If the invisible rogue flanks you, you still get sneak attacked, but not because of invisibility.

Improved uncanny dodge protects you from being flanked and so you can neither be sneak attacked by an invisible rogue nor a flanking one. The flanking one needs to be 4 levels above you to still be able to sneak attack you. But again, only because of flanking.

[corisai]

Originally posted by TGC MadGod:

Being helpless from paralyzation is correct. Every attack will be a sneak attack. Invis is wrong..

Partially wrong. In RAW UD don't protect about sneak attack from Stealth. So ...

But yean, thank you for correction, I get used to our homerule that Gr.Invis is bypassing Uncanny Dodge.

[climbingeastofwinter]

Originally posted by TGC MadGod:

Being helpless from paralyzation is correct. Every attack will be a sneak attack. Invis is wrong..

Uncanny dodge protects you from being sneak attacked while the rogue is invisible or you are flat-footed, since you no longer lose your dex bonus and no longer are flat-footed. If the invisible rogue flanks you, you still get sneak attacked, but not because of invisibility.

Improved uncanny dodge protects you from being flanked and so you can neither be sneak attacked by an invisible rogue nor a flanking one. The flanking one needs to be 4 levels above you to still be able to sneak attack you. But again, only because of flanking.

Words, words! La, la, la! Pew - twang - pew!

And thats all I have to say about that.

[[TGC] MadGod]

Originally posted by corisai:

Originally posted by TGC MadGod:

Being helpless from paralyzation is correct. Every attack will be a sneak attack. Invis is wrong..

Partially wrong. In RAW UD don't protect about sneak attack from Stealth. So ...

But yean, thank you for correction, I get used to our homerule that Gr.Invis is bypassing Uncanny Dodge.

Wrong again or at least strongly debatable. You sneak attack in exactly 2 cases. Your enemy loses their dex bonus or you flank them.

If you attack from stealth, your opponent is considered flat-footed and loses their dex bonus. Therefore, Uncanny Dodge protects you from that as well, if you stick to the words. In a surprise round, you are "considered flat-footed" so not "really" flatfooted, so one could argue that it is just a mechanical way of stripping a dex bonus and thus UD would not help.

But in all seriousness...if it protects from someone stabbing you out of TOTAL invisibility, stealth or surprise should be a no-brainer. Neither of those actually makes you more invisible than invisible..:)

[corisai]

Originally posted by TGC MadGod:

Wrong again or at least strongly debatable. You sneak attack in exactly 2 cases. Your enemy loses their dex bonus or you flank them.

[Disclaimer] This will be all about TABLETOP pathfinder, not about this game*!

Nah, it's just strict RAW.

Uncanny dodge:
1) Can't be flat-footed (status effect, p. 567).
2) Don't lose DEX bonus if attacker is invisible (invisible = status effect, p.567).
3) Can't be flanked.

So all it's giving to you is protection against two status effects and one combat modifier. That's all.

Every other status effect that deny you DEX bonus to AC is working fine. One of them is interesting to us "Helpless".

While it's obvious too long to wait for mob to fall asleep, we still have this option (plus other situations when it can be completely defendless).

*But status effects still work even in this game.

[[TGC] MadGod]

Exactly my point. I have not stated otherwise. That is the reason I did not elaborate how you lose your DEX. You just have to lose it and UD protects you from certain ways you can lose it. And from flanking if improved.

There is no "status effect" in "surprise attacks" or "attack from stealth". If you attack from stealth your opponent is considered flat-footed.

Sticking to RAW, UD will protect me from that unless you debate that "considered" is not "really" and UD only protects from "really". But I consider that argument weak since invisibility is a better "stealth". So imho, RAI is UD protecting from suprise flat-footedness as well. Maybe there it was FAQd already but I am to lazy to check.

[corisai]

Originally posted by TGC MadGod:

If you attack from stealth your opponent is considered flat-footed.

Without "considered" in latest prints of Core book :)

So all that Stealth can offer you - is to make target somehow defendless (poisons, clever usage of furniture and/or traps or just simply wait enough). And it's far easier to do while being Invisible.

[[TGC] MadGod]

Thank god they threw the "considered" out. I had to strike it from mine manually.