Failing Valerie's Third Companion Quest

[A6M Zero]

Spoilers, of course.

When following the "Judgement of the Gods" questline, I recommended upon meeting the religious extremists undermining my state Shelyn-worshipping Order that she refuse to submit herself to them (Chaotic Neutral choice). This turned everyone in the temple hostile, at which point they were promptly annihilated. However, despite Valerie's satisfaction at this - seemingly viewing it as a final end to their interference in her life - this counts as failing the quest.

Why does this outcome constitute a "failure"? Isn't it some bad plot design (DM-ship in this case) that if you don't follow one branch when given two options like this, that it simply gets marked a failure instead of a different outcome?

[Revan]

Same. Says failed. Maybe it doesnt say fail if you tell her to let them "clense" her? Maybe its coming to a fight no matter what?

[Elfie]

Yea, that is the failure in her quest design. Happened to me too.

There should be alternative completion option. Like in my storyline:

-She fought her former master and lost, got scar
-They we came to meet her master and other at the temple. Slain all of them.
...
Next step should be:
-Valerie finally became free of chains of her past
...

But instead it just fails quest and Valerie dont even comment on that.

Seriously, I have slayed her childhood friends and techers all in one day(with her direct help), and she doesn't even spit on them?

Really needs alternative option (as do other companion quests)

[Lethe]

on he other hand name of the quest is Judgement of the Gods and you didnt accept that.

[Moos]

Meh, I just "failed" that quest aswell, I don't want any other outcome as to slay them all though. They dared interfere with my kingdom and my loyal subjects, so they deserve punishment. It saddens me, that this quest is railroading you into specific choices, killing all should also count a completion.

[sandskimmer]

I fail this quest no matter what I do. Is it bugged?

[TeeQueue]

Without going into it too much, Valerie cares a lot about that scar, and getting rid of it is important to keeping her alive, and passing that quest is how you get rid of it.

So if you finish the quest without her losing that scar, then quest failed and she gawn.

[thainen]

The idea behind failing the quest is that she never got any kind of closure with Shelyn of her order. She killed them, but did not gain any peace of mind (not to mention the scar). Unlike other characters, failing her quest has no repercussions in chapter 6, but affects her epilogue ending.

[TeeQueue]

Oh, she stays alive?

...

HUH. I have never failed it to find out. Neat.

[aramintai]

Originally posted by TeeQueue:

Oh, she stays alive?

...

HUH. I have never failed it to find out. Neat.

Yea, there is a different ending slide for her, but she stays alive at the House.

And I agree with the dev - it's a quest about closure, more with Shelyn even than the order. Refusing to go through the trial is like running away from problems - doesn't resolve the issue once and for all. And killing everybody without trying to work it out peacefully is the weakest argument, strange they didn't send more squads to avenge their brothers later.

[TeeQueue]

I'm pretty sure the Order of Prisms was made up of Shelynites that the other Shelynites didn't want to deal with.

I mean... you've met them. You get what I mean.

[Hawke]

Originally posted by thainen:

The idea behind failing the quest is that she never got any kind of closure with Shelyn of her order. She killed them, but did not gain any peace of mind (not to mention the scar). Unlike other characters, failing her quest has no repercussions in chapter 6, but affects her epilogue ending.

But Valerie literally cut all her ties with the zealots, who tried to enslave her (thus, it'd never happen again), and the scar should be removable by any cleric, if it bothered her that much (though, as the main tank, she had worse). Declaring that Shelyn had never had any influence over Valerie by slaughtering her paladins in her temple would feel like a good closure.

I mean, I'd send Fredero's head to the Temple of Prism with a note "Don't try that again", if I could, and considered the matter settled and Valerie could move forward with her life much earlier.

[aramintai]

Originally posted by Hawke:

But Valerie literally cut all her ties with the zealots, who tried to enslave her (thus, it'd never happen again), and the scar should be removable by any cleric, if it bothered her that much (though, as the main tank, she had worse). Declaring that Shelyn had never had any influence over Valerie by slaughtering her paladins in her temple would feel like a good closure.

I mean, I'd send Fredero's head to the Temple of Prism with a note "Don't try that again", if I could, and considered the matter settled and Valerie could move forward with her life much earlier.

1. It's not easy to cut ties with religious orders, especially if they had a special role to play in their mind for her. While she herself may have cut ties, they never accepted it.
2.The scar is magical (or rather, divine) and cannot be removed by any usual means. You can learn about it if you romance her.
3. The order in the temple of Prism is a new branch and not everyone present there were zealous fanatics, Fredero Sinnet and old high cleric were of the old more honorable order. If it were only them, they wouldn't have bothered Valerie after the duel.
4. It's the new order of zealots that slandered the name of the kingdom and commanded Valerie to turn up for divine trial. You may choose to ignore going there but they will continue to drop the stats of your kingdom through slander. You may choose to go and slaughter everybody there but as people answered above - that won't solve anything between Valerie and the order, and Shelyn. You may choose to solve all your problems with agression, but that doesn't mean that the outcome will always be favorable. In the case of this quest, agression is deemed a failure, as it should be solved peacefully. Valerie can definitively say to Shelyn herself that she refuses to serve in the order and since it's a divine trial nobody in the order will go against Shelyn's decision (except for few crazy fanatics, of course).

[Tanlaus]

Originally posted by Hawke:

Originally posted by thainen:

The idea behind failing the quest is that she never got any kind of closure with Shelyn of her order. She killed them, but did not gain any peace of mind (not to mention the scar). Unlike other characters, failing her quest has no repercussions in chapter 6, but affects her epilogue ending.

But Valerie literally cut all her ties with the zealots, who tried to enslave her (thus, it'd never happen again), and the scar should be removable by any cleric, if it bothered her that much (though, as the main tank, she had worse). Declaring that Shelyn had never had any influence over Valerie by slaughtering her paladins in her temple would feel like a good closure.

I mean, I'd send Fredero's head to the Temple of Prism with a note "Don't try that again", if I could, and considered the matter settled and Valerie could move forward with her life much earlier.

+1

I succeeded in her quest my first playthrough- was a pally so tried to resolve the issue peacefully.

But my second where I was TN... did not appreciate the attack on my kingdom. The slaughter everyone choice was much more satisfying.

[Tetsuro]

Same here. She should have a way to get closure about her past without submitting to those pompous oafs' stupid rituals.

Moral railroading in a game like this is the halmark of mediocrity. Such a shame, really, but the game is filled with this kind of frustration, on a storytelling and role-playing level, and this is fatal.

This quest failing was what made me snap as a player. Am rushing to the end now, don't care anymore about turning my kingdom into an utopian power-to-the-people community, about role-playing what became, to my fond surprise, a neutral good alignment, making the right choices, none of that.

Not that the stressful gameplay helped before that, what with tending to the kingdom vs dealing with the main quests before catastrophes begin to happen, but hey, fair enough. Being more realistic here, with more effective delegation and less superhuman heroes/party, could turn this into medieval SimCity, I understand.

But punishing role-playing? Abandoning storylines based on moral player choices? That, my friends, will knock you right out of the classic CRPG revival pantheon at this day and age of Tyranny and Pillars of Eternity.

[Tetsuro]

Originally posted by aramintai:

Originally posted by TeeQueue:

Oh, she stays alive?

...

HUH. I have never failed it to find out. Neat.

Yea, there is a different ending slide for her, but she stays alive at the House.

And I agree with the dev - it's a quest about closure, more with Shelyn even than the order. Refusing to go through the trial is like running away from problems - doesn't resolve the issue once and for all. And killing everybody without trying to work it out peacefully is the weakest argument, strange they didn't send more squads to avenge their brothers later.

No, sorry, it IS bad writing.

The game considers my PC NG, even if my kingdom is clearly secular, almost atheistic (which is an awesome freedom). No one ran from anything, we went there to confront the zealots and tell them to sod off. PC said "if I were you I'd tell them to stick it", a comprehensibly chaotic neutral reaction of a NG atheistic ruler whose friend and kingdom are being harassed by unbearably hypocritical nobles.

Then *they* attack us. And the quest fails.

I realize a game like this is too much work to write right or thoroughly, and that modding is avaiable to discontents. But let's not ignore the game's shortcomings. Agreeing with the devs is irrelevant in a game that's supposed to contemplate all kinds of player choices, views and character alignments.