Why is the point buy so low?

[anramses]

Why did they set the point buy so low in this game. You can't make a decent character with 25 points, much less the the 20 points for mercs. It really should be something like 35 / 30.

[mjfred]

Originally posted by anramses:

never played pathfinder, haven't played tabletop d20 in over 30 years.

I think you had a rather indulgent DM 30 years ago. That is pre point buy 2nd edition ad&d times, rolling 3d6 per stat with a spare roll to discard.
The results could be good but very spikey low/high.
Over generous DMs (& every BG player ever) might allow mulligans to get rid of horrible low scores and power creeped the character.

Points are better and 25 is plenty.
( I think in real life I might just scrape 6-8 points.)

[Propsken]

*inhales deeply*

You don't "NEED" an 18 in Str/Dex/Con for your "basic" fighter, you WANT an 18 in Str/Dex/Con for your "basic" fighter. You want an 18 18 18 10 16 16 array for your paladin? Too bad, you're not getting it. Life's funny like that; you don't always get what you want. Deal with it.

Why do people always want God-stats? Why not settle for "regular heroic"? A Str 16 fighter is not "gimped" - it's expected. It's what the game has been balanced around, mechanically. If there's no chance for failure, no risk to balance that reward, what fun and excitement is there left to enjoy? If you want to be so powerful that you can steamroll your way through the game, I'd advise you to try lowering the difficulty setting. If you want to see a story about super-powered beings that win in the end, go watch a Marvel movie.

I've played 2nd Ed. too - been playing RPG's for over two decades now, and I never needed God stats. If you can't make a "decent" character with 25 points, then trust me, that's on you - not the game. Everyone else seems to be doing just fine with their 25 points. And hey, if you don't like the rules of the game as they are, then don't play it. It's that easy, really.

If you seriously believe that 25 point buy is "gimped", then in my shameless opinion you need to grow up, recalibrate your priorities and check your priviliges. I'd tell you to curb your expectations to a more realistic level, but I don't think you're the kind of player (and I use the term loosely) to listen to reason, judging by the rest of the thread.

</rant>

Have a good day, you bleedin' munchkin.

[ZiffyHead]

I think you get 28 standard and 32 upgraded build points in DnD Online and that gets characters similar to most RPG games, that most people are looking for.

But, the characters here, with a 25 point build, are pretty exceptional, if you think about it from a level 0 NPC's point of view...

[solthusx]

Pretty sure he's trolling actually.

[dulany67]

level 0, private profile

Don't take the bait

[mrekun]

The Monty Hall comment was a bit of a give-away, yes. Jubilost,we need some acid bombs here!

[anramses]

Originally posted by Sporp Miw:

*inhales deeply*

You don't "NEED" an 18 in Str/Dex/Con for your "basic" fighter, you WANT an 18 in Str/Dex/Con for your "basic" fighter. You want an 18 18 18 10 16 16 array for your paladin? Too bad, you're not getting it. Life's funny like that; you don't always get what you want. Deal with it.

Why do people always want God-stats? Why not settle for "regular heroic"? A Str 16 fighter is not "gimped" - it's expected. It's what the game has been balanced around, mechanically. If there's no chance for failure, no risk to balance that reward, what fun and excitement is there left to enjoy? If you want to be so powerful that you can steamroll your way through the game, I'd advise you to try lowering the difficulty setting. If you want to see a story about super-powered beings that win in the end, go watch a Marvel movie.

I've played 2nd Ed. too - been playing RPG's for over two decades now, and I never needed God stats. If you can't make a "decent" character with 25 points, then trust me, that's on you - not the game. Everyone else seems to be doing just fine with their 25 points. And hey, if you don't like the rules of the game as they are, then don't play it. It's that easy, really.

If you seriously believe that 25 point buy is "gimped", then in my shameless opinion you need to grow up, recalibrate your priorities and check your priviliges. I'd tell you to curb your expectations to a more realistic level, but I don't think you're the kind of player (and I use the term loosely) to listen to reason, judging by the rest of the thread.

</rant>

Have a good day, you bleedin' munchkin.

you do realize that munchkin is a complement right? That is the best way to play!

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Paladins and monks require so many (3) vital stats that making them IS hard and this game requires powerful characters (greater enraged owlbears, hm? :P)

the standard for a LONG time in D&D that most folk used was NOT 3d6 for a stat, it is
"roll 4d6 and discard the lowest roll"

Stat buys suck, cookie cutter character results you get less "into" than rolling for them.
See "Temple of Elemental Evil" for a dice roll system of 4d6 and distribute as wish, that's what this game should have used.

so yeah I "cheat" and EDIT *all* the characters to fit better. especially since I have had to replay several times due to bugs, hell with that, gimmie good stats so I can pass the checks yet AGAIN without reloading, sigh

[Propsken]

Yup, troll. Burn it with fi-ACID! I meant acid!

[Entropie]

And what do people do in a video game with a stat roll system?

Yeah, they reload until they get way above average results.

[ShroudedInLight]

Ok, clearly trolling. Nobody but a munchkin appreciates munchkinism.

But still, to mention for other posters, ADnD had completely different rules and mechanics for the conversion of Stats to abilities and skills. You did expect a higher point buy there because you got benefits later on,

For instance, in Baldurs Gate you do not get a bonus to your AC from your dexterity until you have 15, and you don't get a bonus to ranged attacks until a 16.

Strength is the same way, 16 is needed to get even a single point of bonus damage while 17 is needed to get a bonus to attack rolls.

Basically, you add 2-4 to a stat from Pathfinder to get the ADnD score.

[Iridescence]

Originally posted by ZiffyHead:

I think you get 28 standard and 32 upgraded build points in DnD Online and that gets characters similar to most RPG games, that most people are looking for.

But, the characters here, with a 25 point build, are pretty exceptional, if you think about it from a level 0 NPC's point of view...

Unless I remember incorrectly though they use a base 8 though not a base 10. I certainly have not made a character with 18s in 3 stats in DDO at lvl 1.

[solthusx]

DnD does use base 8 for stats when using point buy. And its not possible to get 3 stats at 18 even with 32 points. Best you can get is 18 in two stats and 8 in everything else.

[pascal.difolco]

Yeah I recall rolling 100s of chars first with dice in 2nd ed, then in BG series ! :)
3 18s was really impossible...

[greyarcher]

Originally posted by anramses:

you do realize that munchkin is a complement right? That is the best way to play!

Only in the Land of Oz. In the real world they're to be marginalized at every opportunity.

Ideally, characters need at least one characteristic of at least 15 to avoid being underpowered, and at least 1 characteristic under 9 to stay interesting. (no more than three of either case though to avoid OP or hopeless characters.)