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From a young age Valerie was praised as a great beauty and swarmed by admirers and followers. It was her most striking feature, even though Valerie came to hate the attention it garnered. She took it for granted, as something that will always be there, but then Shelyn, the goddess of beauty itself, takes it away from her.
Then her quest shows how badly she deals with the realisation that without her beauty nobody pays her any heed and some even start avoiding her. And though she always stated that she wanted for people to judge her on her merit, not her appearance, she starts doubting the validity of her competence and accomplishments, because the scar has unmade her completely, as she says herself. And here you have an opportunity to help her come to terms with it and encourage her to continue doing good work.
Then later comes the final trial where Valerie can continue showing unrepentant defiance and stay scarred forever, or comes to respect other people's faith and amicably parts with Shelyn. Shelyn being a good aligned goddess is not without forgiveness, so she removes the scar and lets her go in best case scenario.
If you haven't figured how obvious and classic this is I dunno what to say, man.
While We're at it let's ignore the Fact that a certain Bard in the second Quest is still acting like one of the "admirer's" of her beauty that she mentions with not liking AFTER she's been scarred. Then causing issues out of Spite because she rebuffed him just like she had so many others... because that's really feeling like she's lost her beauty and now misses it, with it gone because of the Scar... And that's really people avoiding her so much because she's stopped being beautiful instead of trying to avoid the Moody Warrior that's been stomping around everywhere angrily... It's not like the Storyteller and Linzi weren't pushing at the kind of stuff that made her leave the order in the first place or in some ways expecting her to have kept momento's and ties to the order. It's not like it couldn't be argued that the Scar isn't really the problem but perhaps Shelyn's Order and so much of the stuff she thought she had escaped being dredged up and brought to the forefront and the scar isn't just an excuse for why she's dwelling on it.
But you know. If you ignore all that then certainly. it's just a basic and classic tale like you said that is driven by what is lost and repentance and that is it's only direction and outcome and thus it must have been from Shelyn. I don't entirely blame you. The rewards of Strength and Charisma boosts as I recall are better for getting the Muse, or i think it's other title is Valorous, ending.
The Hell Knight Ending is a boost to Dex and Reflex saves or something like that. Primarily best for those focused on maxing out her tanking... And it's a bit evil in it's own ways... and it has a lovely little line about Valerie's beauty always having been Valerie's and not Shelyn's. This runs counter to the claims made everywhere else that it was something bestowed by Shelyn onto her as Shelyn's favor and claim on her to be one of Shelyn's Paladins and mark Valerie as Shelyn's. But, I'm not even sure that many people even know that the quest can be ended successfully this way. i think a good amount have only ever seen the ending where she's deemed innocent or the failed ending where she becomes a farmer's wife.
But anyway, Valerie's Hellknight ending success is based solely on successful dialogue checks. Same goes for the best outcome ending. If the arguments are sound enough for Shelyn she considers the test passed. If you fail those checks - the scar stays. Shelyn wanted to teach her a lesson and put her to a test. The goal was to see how she will deal with herself without the precious thing she took for granted - will she repent and get back to the fold, or will she rise above it and prove her right to be free.
So both Hellknight and best outcome ending are still about parting ways with Shelyn, because Valerie wants to be free. Shelyn is not a vengeful, possessive goddess, it is mentioned by the priest in the Hellknight route. So Shelyn lets her go in both cases with successful arguments made. It was also mentioned that Valerie is like the symbol of Shelyn - a proud and pretty bright colored bird. You can't hold it in a cage. And that may also be a contributing factor for Shelyn to set her free and to give her back her beauty - inadvertently, Valerie will still continue inspiring people and spread Shelyn's ideals, even without worshipping her herself.
Also, wtf bonus stats have to do with anything? Don't shoehorn those to justify story choices.
Also, get your timeline straight with the bard. He was following Valerie when she was pretty, before the scar, but she rebuffed him just like everybody else. It was mentioned. That came first. He then quickly abandoned his pursuit of her along with everybody else as soon as she got the scar. And then got a bright idea to write a mocking pasquinade about her to get back at her for rejecting his advances. That came after.
And I'm not arguing about how she dealt with her situation, I already wrote about that it was bad. But it was also mentioned that all of her admirers vanished as soon she got it. Her snapping at them wasn't something new for them, she did it all the time before with no effect. So this can't be considered sole factor for abandoning simping over her. People are often shallow and pursue superficial things, that's all there is to say here.
Why are you so invested in a narrative that requires reaching, unsupported assumptions, and weird interpretations to the point where it's nearly unrecognizable? Your theory doesn't even make sense in the context of the storyline. If you have to go outside of the story to explain things (when there's an explanation inside of the story), it doesn't fit. If your theory requires an unreliable narrator in this game....that's not really a trope that's being used here, my dude.
You're welcome to whatever headcanon you want, but don't expect other people to buy it.
Personally, I find it interesting that people are so invested in Valerie's character, lol. She's one of the most discussed and polarising characters of this game from what I've seen. Personally, I like her. She is very flawed, but has some very good qualities as well.
this is what they call a best girl in weeb circles
Well, she's the only standard tank so most people will use her throughout their playthrough. I always found her to be a bit of a potato, personally.
I've seen people have much more visceral responses to using Regongar, Harrim, Octavia, or Jubilost due to their personalities/proclivities. Valerie's bland enough to be palatable for most people. I do think her quest is overall one of the better companion quests in the game though. (Just look this thread for some pretty strong takes)
Everything that I have said is part of the story. It's only you claiming that they are only surface deep. Not Me. I've even brought up things that are happening in the greater story. Things that are happening in her own story, and then I added a little side information in the bonuses gained, which some people are going to care more about.
It is not my fault if you don't want to really look at the story, you just want to give things a quick surface look and push on.
But that's the interesting thing. The Whole Story is actually forecast for you and has little to do with Shelyn other than a few people doing pretty much what you are doing, and have been doing to Valerie for most of her life. Making Base assumptions about why things were happening without looking too deeply. Her whole story actually revolves around how most people don't look too deeply. Yet all her behaviors are actually told to you before she gets into them. Then this part of her life she just wants to get away from slams itself down in her life again in her first quest. Behaviors that she says she dislikes and are what drove her away from Shelyn are front and center in her second quest again and revolve around those behaviors. With just a line about a scar to make it an excuse... Basically in a way, Valerie doing to herself what has upset her about others doing to her, And then we have the Trial at the end. Asking purely about incidences with other people, and not the precepts and teachings of Shelyn. But because there are only two quests for them to call upon the third deciding factor ends up being the prologue event with her. Because that's the only third place they could guarantee she's in your party. They probably should have added something else.
Just Remember when you listen to her story. It's never been Shelyn that said that Valerie was to be her champion or anything. It's always been everybody else taking one look at her and making that thought up in their mind and then pushing it onto Valerie, From her father who likely didn't know what to do with her after her mother died, To the Paladin's who can't accept the Divine intervention even at the Trial and still demand what they want for Valerie to be followed, to even the Priests seeing the scar removed and then Just Deem it all a test because in their Mind why else would Shelyn do such a thing? Even though none of this really makes anything if you consider who and what Shelyn is... But it's easy to just go "oh well the gods are real, they pay attention some times, It must have been the gods doing" without considering it any further. Valerie's whole Arc and many of her interactions revolve around looking deeper than the surface, It's written all over the quest. It's even pointed out to us more when the Behaviors don't go that far but Valerie falls into doing the same thing to herself and doubting herself because for a moment she only evaluates herself based upon the quick surface details after striving so long to get people to do more than that.
i don't have to Reach for any of this. It's all written directly down in the Quests. From Fredrico making surface demands and expecting them to be followed because of him only looking at the Surface of Valerie and seeing himself as a Mentorly Authority over her that's gotten tired of her not going in the direction he wanted. To the Bard that's not used to being Rebuffed that was a hanger on towards her before she left the order and then again when he ran into her into the Stolen lands, then being spiteful and not used to being rebuffed puts on a show lashing out at her because she didn't just fall for him. To Linzi knowing that her fellow party companion wants to be seen as more and then yet again...one of several times... carries on about how to describe Valerie's looks rather than her character for Linzi's book which she knows Valerie doesn't like and even has expressly told Linzi as much before that incident... Right down to the Trial, which revolves entirely around earthly incidences and people tied to Shelyn's Church feeling slighted and demanding the Church Punish her and bring her back into line with the way they think they should be. This is all laid out directly in the writing of the quests and her character dialogues from start to finish. This is so laid out that you can lean over to the Bard and tell him that you know that he started the incident with Valerie and antagonized her and it's actually a response that goes for Valerie's innocence. Frederico if you leave him alive the Duel with him and letting him go actually goes for her Innocence as well. It's actually Frederico's fault and not Valerie Slandering Shelyn that was the problem in that incident.
That's all down in the writing. If Shelyn was paying attention enough to curse Valerie to test her. She would know all that about that incident already... She would know about what happened in the Aldorri Manor already, and that it isn't Valerie's fault. The Whole Trial revolves around Mortal Perceptions. Not Godly ones. the Only thing that is provably Godly in the writing and not just a surface Assumption is Shelyn healing the scar and putting an end to the whole thing no matter which Successful outcome you get. And both the Hell Knight and Muse endings are very successful endings. Good is rather relative in the matter except for what Reward you are actually wanting, One reward might be better to you than the other, Or if you are talking on a purely moral scale of alignment.
I don't have to stretch anywhere to reach any of this... All I had to do was slow down and read and keep an open Mind by listening to what Valerie was asking for from the first conversation you can have with her just after Oleg's Outpost. "Look Deeper and see the Real me and not just the Surface me and the looks". I already know the Gods pay attention sometimes. But they don't pay attention to everything, nor do they even always care, even when events are attributed to them by mortals when they are not.
Your condescending attitude is not helping here either. People are not dumb, they've paid attention and played this game many times. It's just not there.
If the nature of her quests and dialogues are not obvious enough for you, the journal and hence the devs themselves say this: "The {baron/baroness/King/Queen} and Valerie marked a decisive end to an epic saga involving the Stolen Lands, paladins, and even a goddess!...The final word in the old conflict between Valerie and Shelyn's followers was spoken by the goddess herself!..."
Also, the fact that you latch onto new statements once your argument was counteracted with another argument just tells me that you're here simply to argue for argue's sake. If you want to seek attention this is hardly the place for it.
For what it's worth, I hated her almost immediately and dumped her as soon as I could, just because her strength was so low that I didn't find her useful as a fighter.
LOL no it isn't. Like a third of what you're on about is total nonsense. Not even implied. Totally fabricated.
I didn't call anybody dumb. The most you could actually accuse me of is accusing people of not really reading what's going on.
But I will make this short and simple. I've ignored you all calling me several things and I'll coninue to do that. I will just point out this. Since Adding Further follow up statements and additional Details is only seen by you with snide remarks about "latching onto new statements because you were counteracted".
So Let's go By OwlCat's final word on the subject as you have so gratefully posted. (which is posted like you think it's the smoking gun in the conversation). your highlighting of Goddess is nice but let's look between them, particularly since I never denied a Goddess was involved, Only said that the only proof of her involvement is when the scar is healed. But you don't listen to me on that so let's just look at what Linzi tells us (that you have provided) which conveniently enough is exactly how the goddess was involved and what was happening.
Shelyn got involved in the conflict between Valerie and Shelyn's Followers. By Making a very bold final statement to it all. That must be the Scar that got removed during the Trial. Everything else is described purely as the "old conflict between Valerie and Shelyn's Followers" (and Linzi's other quest log markers talk only about her followers and not specifically Shelyn herself as well). Not between Shelyn and Valerie. Not some kind of test. Just a conflict between people that a Goddess spoke up on in the end to put it to rest. They don't take it as anything more. They don't call it a test. They don't say that Shelyn placed the scar, none of that.
So Think what you want. Take it how you want. Don't read anything that gives any detail if you don't want to. That's your choice to make. But try not to act like you've won anything when the things that you do have to quote aren't any kind of smoking gun. They are small pieces in a large tapestry. Enjoy them or don't enjoy them as you wish.