Monk or Scaled Fist

[Fendelphi]

Does the Monk have anything special over choosing Scaled Fist? I mean, I know one uses Wis and the other uses Cha as Monk attribute, but other than that, it seems like Scaled Fist has the upper hand(pun intended).

[ArchAngel]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Does the Monk have anything special over choosing Scaled Fist? I mean, I know one uses Wis and the other uses Cha as Monk attribute, but other than that, it seems like Scaled Fist has the upper hand(pun intended).

Wisdom gives bonus to Will saves and Perception (kind of important in this game as you can miss a lot of loot if you fail those checks).
Charisma gives bonus to Persuasion and Use Magic Device.
Unless you plan to multiclass with Sorcerer or Bard, Wisdom is a superior choice.

[MORROGANDER]

You can multiclass Scaled Fist into a dragon bloodline magus and dragon disciple

[CHAO$$$]

scaled fist vs monk is the most annoyin decision in the game.

It comes down to 1d6 elemental damage bonus on each attack + avoiding the -2wis penalty when picking 1 level vivisectionist (scaled) and using dex mutagen

vs

will being a superior stat in every way. will saves are common,perception checks are common (but as monk you dont get perception as class skill and neither does the dex/will aasimar), charisma is complete garbage. You lose charisma as dump stat (every class which doesnt need charisma should ALWAYS run 7 charisma NO downsides at all) so you lose an effective 3 points for stat allocation

Id say scaled comess out on top but ONLY when multid into vivisectionis and ONLY when running the amulet that allows applying dex bonus to damage rolls. Otherwise the normal monk is better with 3 or 4 levels in rogue for finesse training unarmed strikes.

[Midnight]

Base monk is more defensive of the two. Scaled fist monks will most likely want to use dragon style which scales heavily with Strength and hence will have lower DEX score and as a result lower defenses in early to mid game.

Base monk can go with DEX build and crane style for some serious defensive capabilities early in the game including better will saves.

You could technically use defensive build on scaled fist monk as well but that would kinda defeat the purpose of rolling the class.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Midnight:

Base monk is more defensive of the two. Scaled fist monks will most likely want to use dragon style which scales heavily with Strength and hence will have lower DEX score and as a result lower defenses in early to mid game.

Base monk can go with DEX build and crane style for some serious defensive capabilities early in the game including better will saves.

You could technically use defensive build on scaled fist monk as well but that would kinda defeat the purpose of rolling the class.

if you dont pump dex, why are you even picking monk

makes no sense.
period.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

scaled fist vs monk is the most annoyin decision in the game.

It comes down to 1d6 elemental damage bonus on each attack + avoiding the -2wis penalty when picking 1 level vivisectionist (scaled) and using dex mutagen

vs

will being a superior stat in every way. will saves are common,perception checks are common (but as monk you dont get perception as class skill and neither does the dex/will aasimar), charisma is complete garbage. You lose charisma as dump stat (every class which doesnt need charisma should ALWAYS run 7 charisma NO downsides at all) so you lose an effective 3 points for stat allocation

Id say scaled comess out on top but ONLY when multid into vivisectionis and ONLY when running the amulet that allows applying dex bonus to damage rolls. Otherwise the normal monk is better with 3 or 4 levels in rogue for finesse training unarmed strikes.

Dragon style eventually gives your 1st flurry attack 2x STR modifier to damage and second 1.5x STR to damage. And dragon style is the whole reason to go with scaled fist. Sure, it's not as effective as sneak attack cheese (god I hope that gets nerfed to death) but going DEX to damage with scaled wfist completely defeats the point of the class.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Midnight:

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

scaled fist vs monk is the most annoyin decision in the game.

It comes down to 1d6 elemental damage bonus on each attack + avoiding the -2wis penalty when picking 1 level vivisectionist (scaled) and using dex mutagen

vs

will being a superior stat in every way. will saves are common,perception checks are common (but as monk you dont get perception as class skill and neither does the dex/will aasimar), charisma is complete garbage. You lose charisma as dump stat (every class which doesnt need charisma should ALWAYS run 7 charisma NO downsides at all) so you lose an effective 3 points for stat allocation

Id say scaled comess out on top but ONLY when multid into vivisectionis and ONLY when running the amulet that allows applying dex bonus to damage rolls. Otherwise the normal monk is better with 3 or 4 levels in rogue for finesse training unarmed strikes.

Dragon style eventually gives your 1st flurry attack 2x STR modifier to damage and second 1.5x STR to damage. And dragon style is the whole reason to go with scaled fist. Sure, it's not as effective as sneak attack cheese (god I hope that gets nerfed to death) but going DEX to damage with scaled wfist completely defeats the point of the class.

yawn

[Midnight]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

Originally posted by Midnight:

Dragon style eventually gives your 1st flurry attack 2x STR modifier to damage and second 1.5x STR to damage. And dragon style is the whole reason to go with scaled fist. Sure, it's not as effective as sneak attack cheese (god I hope that gets nerfed to death) but going DEX to damage with scaled wfist completely defeats the point of the class.

yawn

Yeah I'm so sorry that STR monk is a thing, if only we all would run 6x vivisectionist multiclasses we might start having fun the right way.

And if you want your damn saves just multiclass into paladin at lvl 12, the wisdom difference will become completely moot at that point.

[Fendelphi]

Now, with that being said, what if it was a pummeling style build?

[Midnight]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Now, with that being said, what if it was a pummeling style build?

Pummeling style is good against enemies who have damage reduction but useless against anything else. As such any monk can simply take it and use it when they feel like the situation calls for it.

It's not really something you build for because you can't have multiple styles active at once.

[ChopSuey™]

DEX/CHA monks work just fine

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Midnight:

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

Now, with that being said, what if it was a pummeling style build?

Pummeling style is good against enemies who have damage reduction but useless against anything else. As such any monk can simply take it and use it when they feel like the situation calls for it.

It's not really something you build for because you can't have multiple styles active at once.

What I am thinking about is the 2 feats that follows; Pummeling Bully and Pummeling Charge.
The first one giving you a free trip attempt when using pummeling style, the other allowing you to make all your attacks(+Flurry of blows) in a single charge.

So with 4 attacks(at BAB16), + Flurry of blows, all done in a single charge(that can also trip your opponent). Combined with the Greater Trip Feat(AoO against a tripped opponent) and Hammer the Gap, this could lead to a lot of extra damage.

Also, this is intended as a 20Monk(possible affected by the Enlarge spell, to get 4D8 per attack).

So 6 attacks at 4D8, with each consecutive attack dealing 1 additional damage, and the possibility of a 7th attack, all done in one charge. That is up to 28D8 + 21 damage(and strength + unarmed damage modifier x7), all in 1 charge. Seems like it could be fun.
Add Haste and it would be pure stupid.

[Indure]

Originally posted by CHAO$$$:

scaled fist vs monk is the most annoyin decision in the game.

It comes down to 1d6 elemental damage bonus on each attack + avoiding the -2wis penalty when picking 1 level vivisectionist (scaled) and using dex mutagen

vs

will being a superior stat in every way. will saves are common,perception checks are common (but as monk you dont get perception as class skill and neither does the dex/will aasimar), charisma is complete garbage. You lose charisma as dump stat (every class which doesnt need charisma should ALWAYS run 7 charisma NO downsides at all) so you lose an effective 3 points for stat allocation

Id say scaled comess out on top but ONLY when multid into vivisectionis and ONLY when running the amulet that allows applying dex bonus to damage rolls. Otherwise the normal monk is better with 3 or 4 levels in rogue for finesse training unarmed strikes.

Perception checks can be accomplished by others very easily, Cha governs use magic items which can allow monks to use wands to cover some of their early game weaknesses.

[[TGC] MadGod]

STR Monk works nicely in this game even without the grapple mechanics of paper game. Early game is tough since you are missing out on some AC without the means of purchasing cheap help (Amulets of Nat. Armor).

Using a Dwarf gives you +2 con/+2 wis. Throw away the rest of cha he has and use the points to pump up strength/dex/wis. Since Dwarf WIS AC with monk is bugged atm. you lose out on one point of AC right from the bat (18 WIS just gives 3 pts of AC).

Take powerattack, dragon style, maybe dodge.

Dwarf makes sure you are not tripped all the time vs. wolves and other trip-masters and also makes sure your already formidable saves are even better vs. spells. I have run many a strength monk on paper and I currently run one in the game.

You cannot murder-hobo your way through all content with it, since the single strongest option of a strength monk, the grappling, is not in the game. You will be forced to think before you strike and buff accordingly.

[GreenBob]

im of the opinion that pathfinders version of what is a monk is just flat out garbage. Pretty much monks in this game are gankers meant to go after archers/spell casters, however rogues can do it better and actually have a presence in the frontlines due to insane crit and flanking modifiers. All while monks just get extra will saves and immunity to poison. whoopdy f-ckin doo. -_-