Double Slice and Vital Strike

[Skunk]

Both of these feats say they use STR as a bonus modifier, will Weapon Finesse/Finesse Training make them use DEX instead?

[Skunk]

Anyone know?

[00DeadMonkey]

Originally posted by goomba:

Anyone know?

If its like normal Pathfinder its STR for damage. Weapon Finesse only changes your to hit roll. So vital strike will apply your STR twice but use your dex to hit.

[erikem]

And what about Finesse Training?

[Memmo]

Finesse training uses DEX for damage. Double Slice adds your full STR bonus to your off-hand.

They don't work together in PnP, they don't work together here, but they are working as intended.

Edit: I haven't seen the Vital Strike in game, but at least the PnP version of the feat only doubles weapon dice damage. E.g. longsword's 1d8 becomes 2d8, greatsword's 2d6 becomes 4d6, etc.

[Burnz]

If I where a DM, I would say that double strike would function with finesse training, so it would be dex instead of str, for weapons you have finesse training in. But that's just me.

[Entreri]

Originally posted by Memmorath:

Finesse training uses DEX for damage. Double Slice adds your full STR bonus to your off-hand.

They don't work together in PnP, they don't work together here, but they are working as intended.

Is this speculation or did you actually try this in the game?
I understand that by the way it's written it shouldn't work for strength, but I dont know how it was programmed into the game.

[Kosiciel]

It would be perfect if Finesse Training would change STR for DEX for every feat like Double Slice.

[Copycat]

I'm using a Two-Weapon Fighting Rogue with Double Slice and it has increased my damage in the off-hand. It isn't supposed to work according to PnP rules, but it works in game. Pretty juicy damage at +6 Dex.

[MightyMickey88]

Originally posted by Memmorath:

They don't work together in PnP, they don't work together here, but they are working as intended.

This is incorrect. There was extensive debate on the Pathfinder forums about Finesse Training and abilities keyed off STR. Specifically due to players using an Elven Curved Blade in two hands to get 1.5 DEX mod (since wielding a weapon in two hands is 1.5 STR the argument was you got 1.5 DEX). This was clarified by the devs that Finesse Training replaces all properties related to STR when you wield a weapon. So Double Strike should apply your full DEX mod to your off-hand, you get 1.5 DEX when wielding an elven curved blade, etc. In fact the Two-Handed Fighter Archetype should let over-hand chop/backswing apply to an elven curved blade with Finesse Training.

[Memmo]

Originally posted by Wraithstrike:

Originally posted by Memmorath:

Finesse training uses DEX for damage. Double Slice adds your full STR bonus to your off-hand.

They don't work together in PnP, they don't work together here, but they are working as intended.

Is this speculation or did you actually try this in the game?
I understand that by the way it's written it shouldn't work for strength, but I dont know how it was programmed into the game.

Speculation. Admitedly I should've worded it: "...it shouldn't work..."

Save the game before leveling up and try. My character is a rogue and it would definitely be nice if it did work.

[Darkfireslide]

The text of Finesse Training specifically states that any time something would use strength, it uses Dex instead. So this should be true for Double Slice and Vital Strike so long as the off-hand weapon is also a finesse-trained weapon.

[Passárgada]

YES!
Look's like it works,!. Just tried now with my Rogue two weapon fighting.

[Bronzemountain]

In fact, if I recall correctly, the auto-build for Nok-Nok gives him Double Slice, so working as intended it would seem.

[nym_moondown]

It works here as it should in pnp.

[Autocthon]

Originally posted by MightyMickey88:

Originally posted by Memmorath:

They don't work together in PnP, they don't work together here, but they are working as intended.

This is incorrect. There was extensive debate on the Pathfinder forums about Finesse Training and abilities keyed off STR. Specifically due to players using an Elven Curved Blade in two hands to get 1.5 DEX mod (since wielding a weapon in two hands is 1.5 STR the argument was you got 1.5 DEX). This was clarified by the devs that Finesse Training replaces all properties related to STR when you wield a weapon. So Double Strike should apply your full DEX mod to your off-hand, you get 1.5 DEX when wielding an elven curved blade, etc. In fact the Two-Handed Fighter Archetype should let over-hand chop/backswing apply to an elven curved blade with Finesse Training.

Actually Double Slice is an "effect that would increase your strength modifier on damage rolls" so officially the only thing Finesse Training does is let you use Strength in place of Dexterity for the normal purposes of damage[paizo.com]

Overhand chop is called out specifically as an example in the official Unchained FAQ.

Edit: Note that PF:K decided not to "penalize" dex combat characters in this way. One of the many reasons Dex is the god stat even more in PF:K than it is in PnP.