Point Blank Shot + Precision Shot Mandatory for Sorcerer?

[Flip]

Hi all,

So made a sorc - Golden Dragon Bloodline with the idea to be fire focused nuker. Feats I took evocation focus, spell pen & fire focus.

However I have noticed most ranged spells are *touch* spells and that all my touch spells seem to miss.

I remember seeing a youtube vid with Spidey and he picked PBS & PS for sorc which seems counter-intuitive to me but stated they helped touch attacks and removed the -4 to hit penalty

Since I cannot see the spell lists past lvl 1 spells yet I wanted to ask are these feats mandatory for spell casters or are there enough fire or general damage spells that do not require touch attacks? Seems silly to have to burn 2 feats to even hit with spells but if it is required I would rather restart now than later.

Any advice would be appreciated!

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Starkad:

Don't waste feats on arcane armor training. Or any of the metamagic feats, for that matter, until around level 7. It's just not worth it. Spell Focus is good because it raises the difficulty for the target creature to make its saving throw. If you plan on having 2 arcane casters, there are teamwork spellcasting feats (like allied spellcaster), that can make tandem casting crazy. Combat Casting is good if you plan to cast inside melee range of the bad guys, which, when you start fighting some of the BIG critters, they can reach pretty far. Eventually you'll want spell penetration - it helps get through spell resistance of monsters - but you won't start encountering any of those until at least 4th or 5th level.

Spell resistance isn't that big a deal. Lots of spells ignore it outright like Stinking Cloud, very few enemies even at higher levels even have spell resistance. Those that do can be a serious pain if you aren't prepared for it, but any feat that boost spell penetration is going to be doing nothing at all 99% of the time. Too bad there aren't any teamwork feats to boost spell DCs though, that would be amazing.

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

Don't restart

Use this mod to respec anyone
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/7?tab=posts

And you can use this one to give you the 1000g to respec
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/26

And you need to download the unity clinet linked on the respec. The mods and mod launcher are awesome. So many things that should of been in the base game

[Sotanaht]

Respec absolutely should not be in the game. It doesn't belong here and it is obviously cheating. Use it if you want, I'm glad it exists as a mod at least for fixing certain problems, but it rightfully isn't and shouldn't be in the game.

[Notabot187]

It doesn't require these skills, but if you don't take them you are missing out on +5 to hit. Its that simple the game shouldn't need to spell it out for you.

I guess if you want to miss 25 percent more often you can just not take them...

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by Notabot187:

It doesn't require these skills, but if you don't take them you are missing out on +5 to hit. Its that simple the game shouldn't need to spell it out for you.

I guess if you want to miss 25 percent more often you can just not take them...

The game probably should spell out for you that ranged touch attacks count as ranged weapons, and therefor suffer penalties for "Firing into combat". Hell I didn't even know what "firing into combat" was to begin with, I thought it meant shooting when an enemy is attacking you in melee, not shooting any target engaged in melee with anyone.

[FeurinLongcastle]

It's more mandatory because of your need to supplement with auto attacks. 80% of the time your Sorc will not be firing off spells, because you'll run out really quickly (unless you're resting after every few battles). You'll definitely need it for your bow/crossbow attacks.

By the time you have level 3 spells you mostly don't need touch attacks anymore. Fireballs, lightning bolts, etc. are all just Reflex saves. There are touch spells in every level category but they aren't usually the most powerful spell in that tier (barring Disintegration)

[erian]

Its far better to use intimidate then try using any weapon on sorc.Besides you dont NEED to use touch spells if you dont use arcane trickster.While there some great spells with touch attack,you have more then enough of them without it.Its far more usefull to take spell penetrations,focuses,metamagic and specialisation.

[Sotanaht]

Originally posted by erian:

Its far better to use intimidate then try using any weapon on sorc.Besides you dont NEED to use touch spells if you dont use arcane trickster.While there some great spells with touch attack,you have more then enough of them without it.Its far more usefull to take spell penetrations,focuses,metamagic and specialisation.

Keep in mind, you have Sense Vitals even without being an Arcane Trickster, and they still work on Touch Spells. AT is only for maxing out sneak attacks and using them on non-touch spells like fireball.

Though I sort of agree. I don't ever expect my sorc to actually hit things. Maybe intimidate would be more effective, I've never actually messed with that.

[Brughe]

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

Respec absolutely should not be in the game. It doesn't belong here and it is obviously cheating. Use it if you want, I'm glad it exists as a mod at least for fixing certain problems, but it rightfully isn't and shouldn't be in the game.

The Pathfinder system does account for retraining. It should not offend diehard PnP types if there were some system costing time and gold.

To your personal outrage at the notion, please rememeber that this is a single-player game and any kind of retrain or respec feature should not disturb you or your digital accomplishments. Especially, when the feature is being suggested for a game with obtuse tooltips such that you can sink 30 hours into before realizing that you made a poor choice several levels ago.

How about if Owlcat made some Achievement for people who completed the game without ever retraining? Would that sooth whatever part of your self-worth is wrapped up in the digital interpretation of a fantasy PnP role-playing ruleset?

[erian]

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

Originally posted by erian:

Its far better to use intimidate then try using any weapon on sorc.Besides you dont NEED to use touch spells if you dont use arcane trickster.While there some great spells with touch attack,you have more then enough of them without it.Its far more usefull to take spell penetrations,focuses,metamagic and specialisation.

Keep in mind, you have Sense Vitals even without being an Arcane Trickster, and they still work on Touch Spells. AT is only for maxing out sneak attacks and using them on non-touch spells like fireball.

Though I sort of agree. I don't ever expect my sorc to actually hit things. Maybe intimidate would be more effective, I've never actually messed with that.

Its just not worth it to use 3 feats and low duration buff(and maxing dex) for small amount of additional damage on few spells for pure sorc.Just rasing dc of damage spells via focuses will give more bang with less hazzle.

[corisai]

Originally posted by erian:

Its just not worth it to use 3 feats and low duration buff(and maxing dex) for small amount of additional damage on few spells for pure sorc.Just rasing dc of damage spells via focuses will give more bang with less hazzle.

More then worth with with cheaty flanking open for ranged chars (so AT start work since lvl 1 of rogue).

Even more work so on Challenging+ (enervation is insane debuff and get benefits from precise shot). Plus cheaty scorcing ray & hellfire ray (last is double-bugged and deal insane damage). Plus AT10 aoe damage became insane too.

This is far more reliable source of damage then +dc.

[Marneus]

I just wanted to add a little something if you are planning on using mainly Fire. A lot of ennemies are resistant/immune to fire, so plan accordingly and take some spells with other elements as well or you will be in a world of pain sometimes.

Also when nearing the end of the game, some ennemies will be immune to reflex related spells. Like fireball, chain lightning stuff like that, so consider taking spells that target fortitude as well.