Defensive casting ?

[Aepervius]

Did anybody find out how to do defensive casting ? I keep getting AOO'd to unconsciousness because my mage never cast defensively. Did I miss something ?

[Aepervius]

I guess they did not implement it. At all. Which is really bad for mage caster. CAn#t even micro manage stepping back that easily.

[Aepervius]

It isn't clearly said on the help, but here it is : you alawys do a cocnentration check, and ALWAYS cast the spell, but if you fail the concentration check you do an AoO.

Not sure how I feel about that as being in melee with spellcaster isn't a good tactic anymore.

This makes spellcasting in melee more dangerous, so to ease the burden on melee spellcasters we changed the policy with AoO on casting. In a tabletop, you decide what to do (to provoke an AoO, cast defensively, move away and so on) on a case-by-case basis. We decided to simplify this bit by making you always roll a concentration check with DC = 10 + 2 * Spell Level to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity. By canon tabletop rules this would make you not provoke an AoO but will make you lose your spell if you fail your concentration check – not something you want to do against, for example, opponents that you know will fail to hit your AC. Instead, failing your concentration there only provokes an AoO instead of losing the spell.

[GreyFox]

It's terrible like most of the implementations they've done.

[starkmaddness]

In D&D, at least, concentration was a skill, so you could build your character to suceed. In this, you get your attribute bonus and that's it. So you are left with roughly a 50% chance that when you try to cast a spell in melee, the enemy will smack the sh*t out of you.

I thought of building a Magus, but realized making a character who's main selling point is using a per-rest spell to make monsters hit you more, was less than ideal.

[Balkoth]

Combat casting feats are plenty however. So you get that.

[Nagumo]

But why on earth they don't correct the ingame enzyclopädia? Still there is the written the normal rule :(
That to the side. How is it possible that i have to role a 17 with Jaethal by using Bleeding HAnd? The Formula above (10 + 2* Spell Level) coudn't lead to uneven values? Or is Bleeding Hand a Level 3,5 ability ;)

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by Nagumo:

But why on earth they don't correct the ingame enzyclopädia? Still there is the written the normal rule :(
That to the side. How is it possible that i have to role a 17 with Jaethal by using Bleeding HAnd? The Formula above (10 + 2* Spell Level) coudn't lead to uneven values? Or is Bleeding Hand a Level 3,5 ability ;)

LOL, your formula is what you need to overcome not what you roll when you use(always on in game) Cast Defensively.
Pathfinder ruleset:
"When you make a concentration check, you roll d20 and add your caster level and the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type."
So it is like this:
d20+Caster level+Stat Modifier+Item Bonus+Feat Bonuses+Other=X

[Nagumo]

I haven't said that? And in my example it is simple a rounding issue.

By writing "using Bleeding Hand" i mean the value of the concentration check, which was displayed ingame. I thought this was obvisious, because we aren't talking about using it, we are talking about using it, and because of that, we have to do a skillcheck. Hope i could help you :)

What about enemy mages? At least one of them (level 3, no talents or spells working at him) casting a spell and my char standing just right in front of him. No concentration check was going, no AoO from my char was happening (and no, he hasn't attacked with an AoO at all at that turn already)?

[Eonwe]

Originally posted by Nagumo:

[...]because we aren't talking about using it, we are talking about using it

Yep, makes sense.

[Nagumo]

Originally posted by Eonwe:

Originally posted by Nagumo:

[...]because we aren't talking about using it, we are talking about using it

Yep, makes sense. :ShockedOwlcat:

.....we are talking about using it, and because of that, we have to do a skillcheck.

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by Nagumo:

I haven't said that? And in my example it is simple a rounding issue.

By writing "using Bleeding Hand" i mean the value of the concentration check, which was displayed ingame. I thought this was obvisious, because we aren't talking about using it, we are talking about using it, and because of that, we have to do a skillcheck. Hope i could help you :)

What about enemy mages? At least one of them (level 3, no talents or spells working at him) casting a spell and my char standing just right in front of him. No concentration check was going, no AoO from my char was happening (and no, he hasn't attacked with an AoO at all at that turn already)?

Yeah sorry looked at it just quickly.
I think when concentration succedes it does not shows in the log.

[Nagumo]

Ah okay. thx. And do you know why Jaethal has to roll a 17 for the concentration check? I tried it with bleeding hands with one enemy in mellee range and now with a level 1 Spell of her Spellbook with 2 enemys. Both times she has to roll at least a 17.

But at least in case of the Level 1 spell it should be 10 + 2* 1 = 12. (If i use the formula described above).

[Immortal Reaver]

Originally posted by Nagumo:

Ah okay. thx. And do you know why Jaethal has to roll a 17 for the concentration check? I tried it with bleeding hands with one enemy in mellee range and now with a level 1 Spell of her Spellbook with 2 enemys. Both times she has to roll at least a 17.

But at least in case of the Level 1 spell it should be 10 + 2* 1 = 12. (If i use the formula described above).

It is DC 15+2*spell lvl, for casting defensively.

[Nagumo]

Ah, okay. thx again. Then the third post of this therad should be corrected. A little bit misleading

[HavokVonFaust]

The bad implementation wouldn't be so infuriating if the enemy didn't keep succeding while you constantly fail miserably.

While on that subject: the RNG is freaking unfair, I'm really tired of failing 2+/3+ rolls over and over again, that's the reason one maximizes certain skills: not to constantly fail the checks.