Why reduce the amount of skills? and skill points?

[Selvokaz]

it may have been mentioned else where, but im curious as to why reduce the skills so much? I can understand why removing fly since there is no need for it since combat is the way it is, but were you guys afraid that players couldn't handle being responsible for diversifying skill allocation?

[Stalindlrp]

probably because some skills just dont apply well to a digital premade story. you cant just change the flow of the story with a preform roll and a merry tune in a digital game after all.

[Grifta]

A lot of the granular skills are great for a pen and paper, but very rarely used for a CRPG. They are just used the Consolidated Skills option from Pathfinder Unchained. It's all balanced, and comes out in the wash anyway.

http://legacy.aonprd.com/unchained/skillsAndOptions/consolidatedSkills/index.html

[BloodDragon]

Because everything you can do to be programmed in a CRPG. Developers cannot accommodate for every possible solution the player can come up with in a tabletop round.
So the developer has to decide what he allows in his game or else this game would never be released or ends up with skill that are never used ingame.
It's was the same with every single DND CRPG.

[Marcos_DS]

The game uses many unchained rules, e.g. the unchained Rogue an unchained Monk. Also consolidated skills from unchained like Grifta also wrote. Reason for consolidated Skills, some are just taken together or make sense grouped, e.g. Trickery. If you tinker around with locks, you probably also understand trap mechanics. Similar how Pathfinder consolidated Listen, Spot and Search to Perception from D&D 3.5. Allows better tie ins with dialogs and story checks too (harder to offer options for 30+ skills than for 11)

[Zerathule]

It may sound counter-intuitive but i actually believe that less skills = more options for players.
The CRPG argument is obviously the most relevant, but even in a pen and paper game, i've noticed that the more skills there are, the more tedious it is, because it'll limit the actions a player can attempt. For exemple, i'd rather have an "Athletics" skill than separate climb, swim, run etc ...

[Selvokaz]

Originally posted by dodo00d:

Because everything you can do to be programmed in a CRPG. Developers cannot accommodate for every possible solution the player can come up with in a tabletop round.
So the developer has to decide what he allows in his game or else this game would never be released or ends up with skill that are never used ingame.
It's was the same with every single DND CRPG.

That's just not true, or you just didn't play many of them. NWN1 and 2, near every skill in Pnp served some kind of function in the CRPG. It's been awhile since i played Temple of Elemental Evil but im almost certain it had it as well.

[Selvokaz]

Originally posted by Grifta:

A lot of the granular skills are great for a pen and paper, but very rarely used for a CRPG. They are just used the Consolidated Skills option from Pathfinder Unchained. It's all balanced, and comes out in the wash anyway.

http://legacy.aonprd.com/unchained/skillsAndOptions/consolidatedSkills/index.html

Yet even some of that isn't even in the game. It feels void of a lot of customization coming from a long time PnP player.

[Marcos_DS]

Originally posted by Lettus:

That's just not true, or you just didn't play many of them. NWN1 and 2, near every skill in Pnp served some kind of function in the CRPG. It's been awhile since i played Temple of Elemental Evil but im almost certain it had it as well.

Neverwinter Nights is actually a perfect example why consoldiated skills make a lot of sense. Who would take hide and not move silently? What rogue would take lockpicking and not disable device? Why should setting a trap (a skill i almost never took) require a different skill than disabling a trap? Do you really need to spilt Perception into Listen, Spot and Search? I like different options, but the groupings in Pathfinder: Kingmaker just make sense (imo).

After all, you don't get reduced options due to "missing" skills. You can still lockpick, steal and set/disable traps as a rogue, its just now covered by "Trickery".

[Lee]

Because that kind of bloat can just overcomplicate things for a PC game that is better if stream lined, that and some things are just hard to fit into the game while still retaining quality.

[Irøn Står Bru]

Perception and Stealth consilidated skills were quite contentious during the early few years of Pathfinder PnP. One of the biggest rules threads at the time was debating about how broken they were, and a derivative thread involving the logic of how fighting completely blind was somehow easier than fighting an invisable creature. As I recall (perhaps incorrectly) Paizo issued FAQ after FAQ on the subject during that period before it settled down.

Anyway, just saying that hide/movesilently and spot/listen is one of the few things i personally wish hadn't changed from 3.5. Other consilidated skills however I'm perfectly in favor of as and when they make sense.

[The Infinity Sock]

It makes it easier to the game developers to combo skills than having like a 100 skills

[Grifta]

Originally posted by Lettus:

Yet even some of that isn't even in the game. It feels void of a lot of customization coming from a long time PnP player.

Well yea, I mean it's not a Pen and Paper game. Why would I ever want to put points into Disguise? I know that a CRPG would only be able to incorporate that a handful of times, so I wouldn't waste the points. Just give me Thievery so that I can have fun with a disguise that one time it's used.

[Selvokaz]

Originally posted by Marcos_DS:

Originally posted by Lettus:

That's just not true, or you just didn't play many of them. NWN1 and 2, near every skill in Pnp served some kind of function in the CRPG. It's been awhile since i played Temple of Elemental Evil but im almost certain it had it as well.

Neverwinter Nights is actually a perfect example why consoldiated skills make a lot of sense. Who would take hide and not move silently? What rogue would take lockpicking and not disable device? Why should setting a trap (a skill i almost never took) require a different skill than disabling a trap? Do you really need to spilt Perception into Listen, Spot and Search? I like different options, but the groupings in Pathfinder: Kingmaker just make sense (imo).

After all, you don't get reduced options due to "missing" skills. You can still lockpick, steal and set/disable traps as a rogue, its just now covered by "Trickery".

First that's more the fact the system it was based on which was 3.0, and 3.5. Also a Ranger might not take move silently, but did get hide because you would take it if you were more into surprsing your target from a ambush position as oppose to sneaking through someones house in the dead of night. Rational thinking can find the solution for any situation. Disable Device has nothing to do with locked doors, it has to do with disarming traps, which is definitely not the samething, and most Rogues would take both, but a ninja doesn't ever have trapfinding, so he would be the worst person to ask to disable device.. rational thinking can find a answer.

Trying to simplify has nothing to do with rational thinking, it has more to do with dumbing down. People don't like putting in the effort to learn anymore and it's becoming more and more evident in our leisure and in our work. Generalizing skill expertise doesn't help differeniate the Skill Monkey from the Wizard, both benefit from a high intelligence, but it was the Skill Monkey's class design that he had access to the most skills and skill points that help show why he was the one you asked to pick the lock and not the wizard.

[Marcos_DS]

Originally posted by Lettus:

First that's more the fact the system it was based on which was 3.0, and 3.5. Also a Ranger might not take move silently, but did get hide because you would take it if you were more into surprsing your target from a ambush position as oppose to sneaking through someones house in the dead of night. Rational thinking can find the solution for any situation. Disable Device has nothing to do with locked doors, it has to do with disarming traps, which is definitely not the samething, and most Rogues would take both, but a ninja doesn't ever have trapfinding, so he would be the worst person to ask to disable device.. rational thinking can find a answer.

A ranger that is unable to move silently through the forest? A ninja stumbling into every trap before finding his target or being stopped by a locked door? I don't see the benefit

Trying to simplify has nothing to do with rational thinking, it has more to do with dumbing down.

I disagree. Simplification things is not the same as dumping down. Unnecessary complexity is the sign of a badly designed system with too much legacy code / rules imo. If your options are reduced by the simplified system and you can do less with it, I would agree. But complexity for complexities sake, no