What prestige classes are worth it?

[Sai Kyouji]

SO FAR, I have heard that Mystic Theurge is is a very poor decision for anything other than roleplaying.
How about the rest?
Stalwart Defender any better than a Barb n Fighter Tank?
Is dragon Disciple actually as good as it sounds?
etc

[vicheron]

Originally posted by Elisarion:

I don't get the point of Dragon Disciple, since you can't get to level 20 in it (you need to be able to cast arcane spells plus I think arcane 5 to take it, which means level 5+...) and you can get everything and more from being a Magus. I honestly think its not working as intended, and should have 10 levels to get all the perks out of it for some wizard 10 + dragon disciple 10 combo to compete with Magus. If you are a Magus, you'd nerf yourself considerably taking it, since you basically are starting back at level 1 progression towards your dragon morphs. What is the point of a prestige class that has 20 levels?

The Dragon Disciple stacks with the Sorcerer's Dragon bloodline progression.

Also, you don't need to take 5 levels of a caster to qualify for Dragon Disciple. You need 5 points in the Knowledge (Arcane) skill. And you need to be able to spontaneously cast spells.

So you could take 4 levels of Barbarian/Fighter/Paladin and 1 level of Bard/Sorcerer/Eldritch Scion Magus. Then you can take however many levels of Dragon Disciple for the attribute and natural armor boosts. And then you can go back to Barbarian/Fighter/Paladin.

[raventhehunter]

Originally posted by AzureTheGamerKobold:

The dragon disciple is unique because if you have levels in sorcerer usually if you cross class into another class you would stop progressing your bloodline traits. But a disciple KEEPS getting his dragon bloodline features in addition to the discple features. It's almost specifically for dragon blooded sorcerers, they gain a bunch of flavor, and stat boosts and they lose only a couple caster levels in exchange.

It's an interesting choice for Regongar as well, if you're willing to give up a measure of his Magus power.

I've heard it touted as a possible choice for Linzi, of all people, as well.

[Bijat]

eldritch knight is decent for a wiz/sorc that mainly focus on buffs and therfor use auto attacks allot at lev2 u gain spell gain like normal and all 10 levs count like fighter lev so u can become a better archer & bonus feats. But takin 1 lev of alch or rogue and go arcane tricksters prob end up a better archer. (in total gain same spell levs).

Mystic Theurge is ok if you for some reason only wan´t 1 spell caster but will take awhile for it to become ok, like 13-14

Duelist can be ok to make a magnus abit more defensive, but that build will suck until lev 9 (crap ac) and will still have qute a way to go to make it better then heavy armor magnus and will in the end only have better defense, offense will suffer.

stalwart defender is soso, the DR u alrdy gain by going 19 fighter the +4 dodge AC is gdgd, uncanny dodge is soso becuse u will prob have low dex so loosing dex ac aint that big. Imped uncanny dodge i have no idea how it works when stalwart defender is not a rogue? nor is fighter?
So in the end the gain is minimal compared to simply max fighting levs and u loose alot of feats and fighter levs for feats.

Dragon discipline, not that sure how gd it is...u get dragon form like sorc at lev 13/15/17 if u take dragon bloodline. As far as i understand dragon discipline don´t add to sorc to gain thease but the UI takin dragon discipline is kinda bugged for me (seeing 5 dragon bite). And those forms is 1m/lev so long enuf to last important parts. While dragon discipline make your natural form more dragon like but you loose some spell levs and in the end will be subpar compared to a sorc in dragon form. Maby can be a ok choice for some fighter type or magnus build, but for the most part simple sorcs will be alot better at lev 13+ The claw/bite (main attack) only last 3+cha rounds soo...

PS: If what vicheron say is correct then dragon discipline may be a good thing for a sorc to make the most out of his dragon ability, making dragon form even more potent.

[Sir Texas Sir]

Originally posted by Elisarion:

Originally posted by Larus:

Arcane trickster is fun if you want sneak attack with spells. Only 1 level of rogue or vivisectionist needed, so you don't end up as a weak spellcaster.

You need 3 levels of rogue to turn Octavia into an Arcane Trickster...

No you don’t with that one perk that gives you an extra sneak dice you only need level 1 Rogue. I did take leave 2 for the perks of evade and such that came with it.

[davide.forcina]

In my Experience...

Arcane trikster is the best spellcaster in this game.

With Accompliched Sneak Attack you need just a level of Rogue or Vivisectionist to take this prestige class.. so you lose only a spell level (if you are a wizard you gain spell levels like a sorcerer), but you add Sneak Attack Damage to every ray-spells you cast (and every spells later on).
My Arcane trickster use lv0 Cantrips and alway do 1d4 + 5ds, because in this game is very easy to have enemies flat footed and almost every attack will gain sneak attack.

There's no mean to make an "area controller" wizard, is too hard to use control spells in a real time game... just focus on blast! And arcane trickster is the best blaster of all... also i can disarm traps, go stealth, and do other good stuff.



Dragon Disciple is a MARTIAL PC!
I Play it with 2 lv Scaled fist monk + 2lv Paladin + 1 lv sorcerer... and then dragon disciple!
He have the higher armor class of all my party... more the the full plate fighter! Mor HP than everyone and 30 STR!
He attack with flurry of blow + claws and bite, usign dragon ferocity feat, and can cast on himself Mirror images + shield + enlarge person. He's a juggernout!
Very High Safes, he is a really OP character, and i think to make it a stallwarth defender too, when i reach lv10 of dragon disciple.


Stalwarth defender is also a nice Prestige class. If u want to make a very "tanky" character... take it!
Just equip him with a reach weapon + combact reflex, to compense the low mobility.

[Bijat]

Originally posted by davide.forcina:

In my Experience...

Arcane trikster is the best spellcaster in this game.

With Accompliched Sneak Attack you need just a level of Rogue or Vivisectionist to take this prestige class.. so you lose only a spell level (if you are a wizard you gain spell levels like a sorcerer), but you add Sneak Attack Damage to every ray-spells you cast (and every spells later on).
My Arcane trickster use lv0 Cantrips and alway do 1d4 + 5ds, because in this game is very easy to have enemies flat footed and almost every attack will gain sneak attack.

There's no mean to make an "area controller" wizard, is too hard to use control spells in a real time game... just focus on blast! And arcane trickster is the best blaster of all... also i can disarm traps, go stealth, and do other good stuff.



Dragon Disciple is a MARTIAL PC!
I Play it with 2 lv Scaled fist monk + 2lv Paladin + 1 lv sorcerer... and then dragon disciple!
He have the higher armor class of all my party... more the the full plate fighter! Mor HP than everyone and 30 STR!
He attack with flurry of blow + claws and bite, usign dragon ferocity feat, and can cast on himself Mirror images + shield + enlarge person. He's a juggernout!
Very High Safes, he is a really OP character, and i think to make it a stallwarth defender too, when i reach lv10 of dragon disciple.


Stalwarth defender is also a nice Prestige class. If u want to make a very "tanky" character... take it!
Just equip him with a reach weapon + combact reflex, to compense the low mobility.

How you make that martial PC work rly? the claw/bite is 5-6round per day only so maby 2 fights, rest of the day u will use monk fists i guess? i also kinda wonder about your stats. Gotta have decent str for attack/dmg, decent dex for ac/feats, decent con for hp, good cha for pala beeing & spells, decent wis for monk ac. So 17/14/14/7/12/16? Using no armor that end up with 10+2(dex)+1(wis)+4(mage armor)+4(natural armor)+2(shield spell) thats 23ac, can maby buff to 26-27 still pritty low AC.

Also, how do you make enemies faltfootded all the time? have not tried out arcane tricksters becuse i not seen that meny ways of doing it long term to enemies? Yes casting spells in begining will give u sneak attack dmg but...

[corisai]

Originally posted by Bijat:

How you make that martial PC work rly? the claw/bite is 5-6round per day only so maby 2 fights, rest of the day u will use monk fists i guess? i also kinda wonder about your stats. Gotta have decent str for attack/dmg, decent dex for ac/feats, decent con for hp, good cha for pala beeing & spells, decent wis for monk ac. So 17/14/14/7/12/16? Using no armor that end up with 10+2(dex)+1(wis)+4(mage armor)+4(natural armor)+2(shield spell) thats 23ac, can maby buff to 26-27 still pritty low AC.

AC don't matter. Only pure tanks (well, maybe duelist too) can have enough AC to tank by it and ONLY on easy-normal.

Originally posted by Bijat:

Also, how do you make enemies faltfootded all the time? have not tried out arcane tricksters becuse i not seen that meny ways of doing it long term to enemies? Yes casting spells in begining will give u sneak attack dmg but...

Sneak attack work on flanked enemies too. Flank them by two melees and your arcana trickster will start to melt faces :)

[Edreyn]

I started as a monk, and now took Dragon Disciple to get bonuses for AC and strength.
Considering to take Stalwart Defender for even more AC.

[Tommy]

Originally posted by Sai Kyouji:

Anyhow, no comment on Duelist n Eldritch Knight?

Duelist can be really nice in combination with Sword Saint, as Canny Defense from both classes stack in this game, so you add double your INT modifier to AC. Combine this with the Crane Style feat chain and other bonuses - maybe even add monk levels for AC. You can get really high AC (50-70) and can do a lot of attacks from Riposte and Crane Riposte.

[michael]

Actually.. you can do this.
Race: Assimar (musetouch +2dex +2 chr)
1Monk (scaled fist)/Rogue Thug (4)/Paladin(2)/Vivisectionist(1)/Sorceror 1/Dragon Disciple10/(rest up to you)
Stats.. well maybe something like 17/14/14/7/12/16

Important feats
Skill focus (persuasion)
Deceit (give persuasion bonus).
Cornugon Smash, Shatter Defenses
Brutal Beating (from level 4 thug).

Okay this gives you unarmored defense (ac = dex+chr + natural armour (from DD and vivisectionist)
Good saving throws (monk+divine grace)
sneak attack ( +2=rogue,+1=vivisectionist,+1=accomplished sneak attacker, +1 precision teamwork). = total about +4d6 or +5d6 (situational) per attack.
Two weapon fighting = 7 attacks

Now the crux of this build is this.
When you deliver a successful attack.. triggers demoralized(intimidate check=persuasion check), if this succeeds. You get shaken effect.
A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked.
With brutal beating (if sneak attack is successful).. you get sickened.
The character takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
Then shattered defense (flat footed, no Dex bonus to AC (unless has uncanny dodge or combat reflexes) = automatic sneak attacks.

So in short when you hit.
victim gets (-4 to AC, -4 to saving throws, -4 skill checks) + No AO + No dex bonus (- something to AC unless has uncanny dodge or combat reflexes).
That is not just for you, but for all companions.. spells work better, more vulnerable to attacks.

Balance levels (3) up to you.
Rogue or vivisectionist = more sneak attacks.
Fighter = +more bab.. feats.
Sorceror = more base buffering spells.

[davide.forcina]

He have 30 AC and 120HP at lv 11
It also have almost 30 STR... of course i use item to boost it, like the belt of the troll king that give +4 str and +4 con

He start as a "dumb" Aasimar Angelkin

STR 19
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 7
CHA 16

2 levels of Scaled fist monk for CHA to AC, stun fist, flurry, evasion, 2x extra feat (dragon style and dodge)
2 levels of paladin for Precise shot, Smite Evil, Cha to every safe, lay on hands

Those are both full BAB classes with 2 good safes and d10 HP

1 lv Sorcerer Dragon Bloodline (but i think that bard Archeologist will be better...)

Then dragon disciple.
All abilities increas should go to STR!

At lv 11 he got:

STR 29 (19 + 1(lv4) +1 (lv8) +4 (belt) + 4 (dragon disciple) [also he enlarge himself most of the time]
DEX 14
CON 20 (14 + 4(belt) + 2 Dragon disciple)
INT 7 (he lack skill points, but it's not his purpose)
WIS 7 (but all his classes have good Will save + Cha to al ST!)
CHA 20 (16 + 4 headband. Use cha to AC and every ST!)

AC : 10 + 2 dex + 5 cha + 5 (brace of armor) + 5 (natural: necklace and dragon disciple) + 1 dodge + 2 ring = 30! [also he always cast shield on himself... an mirror images!]
TS : i'dont remember but they are very high.. all classes have 2 high safes and he take +5 to everyone thanks Divine Grace

He have almost 130hp, he only have a level of sorcerer, the other classes have d10 or d12 hp! High CON and free Toughness (dragon bloodline feat)

Most of the time i only use his fists (amulet of mighty fist +3) and claws+bite only against boss, but this is my choiche... he can swing an erarthbreaker pretty well or every other martial weapons!
TO HIT : 8 BAB + 9 STR + 3 (amulet) = 20! nice :)

Always self-buff with Enlarge persone + shield + mirror images... he is almost invincible.
And soon he can become a Dragon! With more Abilities increase! O_O

I plan to make it more extreme with a level of vivisectionist (mutagen to STR + sneak attack) and Stalwarth defender at higher levels :D




For Arcane trikster... this game make Sneak Attack very easy!

Every time you hit (melee or ranged) an enemy that is threated by an ally.. you deal sneak attack! No need flanking!

I think that every build should take at least a level of Rogue + Accomplished Sneak Attack, to add 2d6 damage to almost every attacks... it's "cheasy" but very good.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Originally posted by Elisarion:

Originally posted by Larus:

Arcane trickster is fun if you want sneak attack with spells. Only 1 level of rogue or vivisectionist needed, so you don't end up as a weak spellcaster.

You need 3 levels of rogue to turn Octavia into an Arcane Trickster...

no you don't, take the feat that gives +1 sneak attack bonus and that counts ;)

[Marcos_DS]

Originally posted by michael:

Actually.. you can do this.
Race: Assimar (musetouch +2dex +2 chr)
1Monk (scaled fist)/Rogue Thug (4)/Paladin(2)/Vivisectionist(1)/Sorceror 1/Dragon Disciple10/(rest up to you)
Stats.. well maybe something like 17/14/14/7/12/16

Really love that build!
I'm currently playing a very similar one:
Musetouched Dex + Cha focus
Scaled Fist 1 / Fighter 5 / Thug 12 / 2 Paladin

BAB 17 with Dual Wield Kukri (15-20 crit) for 7 iterative attacks, crits trigger teamwork OAs and tired (-1/-1), later fatigued (-3/-3)

Thug lvl 12 allows two advanced talents, i will take Double Debilitation and Crippling Strike (2 str damage per sneak attack, and -6 to hit / - 6 AC due to lvl10). Combine with shaken, sickened and (if a crit happens) fatiqued for best results. Fighter 5 for weapon training (and Duelist Gloves) for +3/+3).

[Bijat]

But only time arcane trickster dose sneak attack with spells is when target it flat footed:
"At 10th level, an arcane tricksters can add her snea attack damage to any spell that deal damage, if the targets are flat-footed."

Dose not work like normal sneak attack...
And AC dose matter....srsly...

[davide.forcina]

In this game enemies will be flat footed just if treated by an ally.
So almost every attack will be sneak