Install Steam
login
|
language
简体中文 (Simplified Chinese)
繁體中文 (Traditional Chinese)
日本語 (Japanese)
한국어 (Korean)
ไทย (Thai)
Български (Bulgarian)
Čeština (Czech)
Dansk (Danish)
Deutsch (German)
Español - España (Spanish - Spain)
Español - Latinoamérica (Spanish - Latin America)
Ελληνικά (Greek)
Français (French)
Italiano (Italian)
Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian)
Magyar (Hungarian)
Nederlands (Dutch)
Norsk (Norwegian)
Polski (Polish)
Português (Portuguese - Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portuguese - Brazil)
Română (Romanian)
Русский (Russian)
Suomi (Finnish)
Svenska (Swedish)
Türkçe (Turkish)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamese)
Українська (Ukrainian)
Report a translation problem
Discussions Rules and Guidelines
Report this post
Mystic Theurge doesn't have a main stat, because that--or those, depending on your entry choices--is/are entirely dependent on what classes you entered from.
Cleric/Sorcerer is entirely doable, and there is both a specific bloodline AND an archetype (the celestial ones) for the latter that make Wisdom your casting ability instead of Charisma. You'll have a raftload of spells for damned near any situtation you can think of, and immense versatility in how you cast them too. It's how I'm building Tristian, in fact.
The down side, however, is that you'll never get 9th level spells for either class, and only one--cleric, I think--will get 8th level spells.
And yes, not letting us inspect the advancement of a prestige class--or a second class of any sort, for that matter--before taking the first level is rather silly.
There's a Druid archetype (Feyspeaker) that makes Charisma your casting stat, so you can pair that with Sorc for MT, as well.
Also, it's not true that you won't ever get your 9s. Full casters (clerics, druids and wizards) get their level 9 spells at caster level 17. So if you enter MT at caster level 3 in both your classes, you can get level 9 spells in one of them after you have maxed out with MT 10 like so: Clr3/Wiz7/MT10 for a total of 20 character levels. You have to have Clr3/Wiz3 to enter MT as your 7th character level, of course. But that leaves you at character level 16 when you max out Mystic Theurge - you have four more character levels left. Which means you will be effectively 17 in one class, and 13 in the other. Assuming you don't split your last four levels evenly between your classes to end up as 15/15 in both (which is level 8 spells).
This is the real reason why Sorcerer is ill-advised to enter Mystic Theurge with because their spellcasting progression is delayed one level (they get their spell 2 spells at Sorcerer 4) compared to Wizards (who get their level 2s at Wiz 3).
Yeah, I forgot that you can swing the levels of the prerequisite classes one way or the other; I'm just a bit OCD and always think first of 5/5/10 for that reason :p.
Didn't know about the Druid archetype, that's nifty.
But yes, it was a serious oversight that you can't see the PrC progression until you qualify for it.
Apart from its extremely underpowered mechanics, though, the main reason to avoid it in this particular version of the game is that it doesn't have Spell Synthesis - which was literally the only reason to ever take levels in it in the tabletop version. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/mystic-theurge/
I imagine modders will eventually get around to fixing a lot of things (like wizards not even having Scribe Scroll and Alchemists not having Brew Potion...), but for now, it's best to just avoid Mystic Theurge unless you have your heart set on it for some sort of flavor reason.
If you want your sorc or wiz to heal people, invest in the Use Magic Device skill and just use Scrolls that you buy.
Ecclesiatheurge (Tristian's cleric archetype) has a very powerful buff that scales off Charisma, though, so it's an interesting early game option for Sorc/Clr MTs. It's just a horrible thing to make decisions about long-term since the Heroism spell exists...
Empyreal Sorcerer/Cleric(any of them)
Since empyreal changes your main stat from Charisma to Wisdom it allows you to focus in just one stat, the down side is you HAVE to take the celestial bloodline which isn't terrible but not stellar.
Main benefit of the class is you get access to ALOT of spells per day, but as someone else has said it's not a great class. It's fun sure, and it has some unique utility... but if you expect to be able to cast the best spells in the game from both divine and arcane think about. Best you get is level 7 spells and you lose out on 5 caster levels from both if you do 5/5/10. It's sub-optimal at best, however i quite enjoy the class as support... focus in DC based spells like fear, hold person ect, and it has alot of utility and can cover alot of areas at once. But it will never be the king of damage or save or suck, it will always lag behind everyone else... BUT i'd argue no more then a magus or inquistor in terms of spells you get access to.
I like the MT... i've done a base class version for pen and paper which fixes some of its issues for my table top group. Over all it's probably the worst PRC in kingmaker but that doesn't make it bad, it's something you should go for if you know the game really well. If you don't i'd say hold off an play a pure sorc or cleric, or even a bard. the bard gets both divine and arcane spells up to level 6, just not all of them and it's very enchantment/charm focused. But does get some buffs, and CC and healing. If that's what you want a buff monster, the bard can do that in spades!
Well, well empyreal cleric is crappy on Channels since that's based on Charisma.
Furthermore, Heavenly Fire is still based on Charisma even tho they say all aspects of the class will be based off Wisdom.
Another thing I wonder is that does Mystic theurge levels improve channel power at all since it says clearly "cleric level"?
I already have other people for damage so Im looking for a versatile support right now. (a dragon disciple paladin, a knife rogue and a rogue ranger)
Beside, like in all games, I doubt min-maxing is necessary to clear this game.
... No. A full explanation can get a bit technical, so if you aren't really familiar with the way 3.5/PF works, you will have to play both a full caster and a mystic theurge side by side to really understand by comparison.
A TL;DR: You get more spell slots, in total, but you are always 3 levels behind any pure caster and your spell slots are divided between the two classes. This is important to understand, and the implications are not necessarily obvious if you're new to the game. There are several very crucial things this means about your Mystic Theurge.
1. 2/3rds casters like Alchemists, Maguses and Inquisitors will have access to higher level spells than you will for the first 10 out of 20 character levels. They also have better BAB and Saves than you do, as well as better HP, better armor and better weapons than you do, but since you've doubled down on being a caster by going Mystic Theurge in the first place, you will have neither the Ability Scores nor the inclination to care about those things anyway.
2. Your ability to penetrate Spell Resistance is at a penalty of -3 compared to a pure class caster. This is potentially incredibly important depending on how common SR is among your enemies. Almost everything past level 10 has Spell Resistance. In the tabletop, there are feats to help make up for this. In this game? Those feats don't exist yet, and may never exist unless modders can create them... eventually.
3. The durations, damage and range of your spells are 3 caster levels worse than a pure class caster. This isn't necessarily a huge deal because 3 rounds / minutes more or less is probably not going to ruin you, and no one should be using spells to do damage anyway. Your hours/level spells last long enough that you shouldn't care and there's rods of Extend anyway.
4. Now to the meat and potatoes: your spells are divided between your caster classes. If you add all your spell slots together, you get a lot of spells per day, yes... but that's deceptive. Because you can't just prepare whatever you want in any slot you want. You are not a big pile of powerful spells. You are two separate piles of weak spells. You are not a level 7 spellcaster. You are two level 4 spell casters who have to share action economy with each other. While the level 7 wizard is throwing around Confusion and Slow, you can only cast level 2 spells. One Confusion will end a fight in your favor. One Web might be situationally ok if you have Ekun in your party and your enemies have weak Reflex saves, but it's just not as powerful as a level 4 spell. Or even the level 3 Slow spell. This means you can't cast any more arcane spells in a day than a level 4 wizard could. You can't cast any more divine spells in a day than a level 4 cleric could.
5. You must split your Ability Scores unless you take the even worse option to use Feyspeaker with Sorcerer (which both use Charisma) or Empyreal Sorc with Clr/Dru (which both use Wisdom). Which means you have frighteningly bad Constitution, Strength, Dexterity and Charisma. You will get one-shot if anyone wants to kill you. There's spoilers here that I don't want to really address. Furthermore, because there are no races that give a +2 to both Int and Wis, you will only be able to max one score. I recommend you hit 20 on Intelligence to keep your save DCs high and use your divine slots on buffs.
Mystic Theurge can be satisfying to play if you're a roleplayer. But if you're a powergamer expecting that it will make you Teh Ultimate Spellcast0x0rz, you will be very badly mistaken.
That isn't true.
Caster level 15 is high enough to reach spell level 8 spells in both Cleric / Druid and Wizard if you go for 5/5/10mt.
I personally recommend a 3/7wiz/10mt split in order to hit level 9 arcane spells and leave divine spells at spell level 7 (caster level 13). Why is this? Because, frankly, level 8 and level 9 divine spells just aren't as good as level 8 and 9 arcane spells. Wail Of The Banshee is almighty god. Mass Heal is good... but not as good as killing all enemies with one turn.
And you have two pure clerics in the game as companions already: Tristian and Harrim.
No.
Class features only scale with levels in that specific, particular class. If you multiclass with anything else, those levels do not count unless the class you're gaining levels in specifically says so. And there are none like that in this game right now (there are in the PnP version of PF but they're extremely rare).
If you go 3clr to enter Mystic Theurge, your Channel will always behave as if you have only 3 levels in Cleric. Because you only have 3 levels in Cleric.
If you want a pure support class, use Bard. Linzi already exists. Granted, she's not exactly the same as a mystic theurge, the two builds will function differently. Linzi does not support on the strength of her spells alone, and she doesn't get as many as a Mystic Theurge does, but... she doesn't really need to. She has Perform (Inspire Courage is the last word in party combat support) and she can make a competent (though not stellar) trapper / lock picker. Her combat power is unimpressive, but a Mystic Theurge's non-spellcasting combat presence is worse than nothing because you will have to protect your MT.
And preparing spells like Invisibility not only decreases your spell slots for support, but things like Invis won't guarantee you survive either (because you'll have terrible Stealth compared to enemy Perception, even with the spell's +20). It will help, yes, because they have to slowly walk towards you and pin-point your space to attack against full concealment (50%), but it won't make enemies just ignore you.
MTs are competent pure supports in their own fashion. They just aren't a total package the way a Bard is. MTs only bring spells. Bards bring enough spells (though fewer than MTs, granted) but they also bring Inspire Courage and a boatload of class skills besides, on top of weapons / armor proficiencies, hit points and better Ability Score distribution.
Important note: Clerics and Druids get armor proficiencies and can cast spells unimpeded by the Arcane Spell Failure Chance of their armor... wizards can't. If you go MT, you should avoid wearing armor of any kind except Bracers Of Armor or Mage Armor.
Pathfinder sure doesnt mess around with builds.
Far as I can tell, atm you dont actually reach level 20. Just throwing that out there, I multiclassed for power and I regret it now, realising what kind of level you end up at the end with.