Pathfinder: Kingmaker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker

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NathanXS Oct 7, 2018 @ 5:42pm
AC Stacks - Highest AC possible
Does anyone know how which spells/equipment/artifacts stack with each other that increase AC?

So long i found
- Deflection (Rings, shield of faith )
- Natural armor ( Bark skin )
- Armor Bonus (mage armor)
- Shield Bonus (shield spell)
- Enchantment Dexterity (Mutagen, cleric/druid spells)
- Reduce Person (+1 AC)

They usually dont stack with similar effects, but are they all of it?
Any tipps to raise AC even higher?

Last edited by NathanXS; Oct 7, 2018 @ 5:50pm
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Showing 1-15 of 37 comments
Sigmarsson Oct 7, 2018 @ 5:48pm 
Well you got AC by dodge and those should stack.
Naked Granny Oct 7, 2018 @ 6:04pm 
Keep in mind that the armor you wear puts a cap on the amount of AC your Dexterity can give you. Dodge bonuses all stack with other Dodge bonuses.

A short list of bonuses you haven't listed yet:

- Cover bonuses: +2 for normal Cover, +4 for Full Cover
- Combat Expertise and Defensive Fighting
- Enhancement Bonuses on your armor and shield are typed as such: your +5 Tower Shield stacks with your +5 Full Plate
- Luck bonuses
- Untyped bonuses: these are not necessarily typed as "Dodge"

Other sorts of effects you can throw on to boost your defenses against physical attacks: Blur and Displacement (or Greater Invisibility) for 20% and 50% Concealment, respectively, are an entirely separate "layer" of defense unrelated to your AC and therefore you can consider it to sort of stack "multiplicatively". There's also DR - Stoneskin can give you DR 10/adamantine for a certain amount of total damage absorbed, but Adamantine armor (there's a +1 adamantine full plate for sale!!!) gives DR/- of a certain amount (DR/- means it isn't penetrated by anything). Barbarians get scaling DR/- as well.

Generally speaking, AC is great if you can maintain it above 15-20 + your character level. If you can't, go for DR and Concealment instead. They all work together, though, so you shouldn't completely neglect your AC on anyone past, say, level 6 or so.

Why? Because of what's called "iterative" attacks. Iterative attacks are at an increasing penalty to hit. You might not have the AC to avoid the first attack that round, but the second or third or fourth attack that mook is making against you are at -5 / -10 / - 15 and so on. You would much rather only take one hit than four, even if you are guaranteed to get hit by the first one. Natural Attacks (such as those which monstrous creatures or animals have) don't quite work the way a humanoid fighter does, but the general rule of thumb holds: secondary attacks occur with penalties to hit.

Other rules of thumb that are useful as guidelines if not for every situation: against natural attacks or many attacks per round, especially if they are very accurate, it's easier to reduce incoming damage through DR. Against a brute with one or two powerful but inaccurate attacks, higher AC or Concealment is more effective (though you might eat a lucky shot or two, since crit happens).

Theoretically? There's always a 5% chance you will get hit and maybe crit: because a natural 20 on the attack roll is an auto-hit and threatens a critical hit. Practically? It's unlikely you will ever hit the theoretical limit, so get all the defense you can muster.
Last edited by Naked Granny; Oct 7, 2018 @ 6:04pm
Xandor Oct 7, 2018 @ 6:07pm 
Halfling gets +1.
I think the mage npc in act 2 drops a +3 dodge dagger. (Arcane Protector, not sure if it is from him but I thnik so)
Halfling can get another +2 AC on fighting defensively from a halfling only feat.
Feats: heavy armor focus, shield focus, shield wall, dodge, greater shield focus.

At lvl 8 (before fighting troll boss) I had 52 AC on halfling tower shield specialist.
Last edited by Xandor; Oct 7, 2018 @ 6:14pm
Naked Granny Oct 7, 2018 @ 6:10pm 
Originally posted by Xandor:
Halflking gets +1.
I think the mage npc in act 2 drops a +3 dodge dagger. (Arcane Protector, not sure if it is from him but I thnik so)
Halfling can get another +2 AC on fighting defensively from a halfling only feat.
Feats: heavy armor focus, shield focus, shield wall, dodge, greater shield focus.

At lvl 8 (before fighting troll boss) I had 52 AC on halfling tower shield specialist.

That's because of their Size. Small creatures get a +1 Size typed bonus to AC. Large creatures get -1 Size penalty to their AC. This is separate from bonuses / penalties to Dexterity (which size modifiers like the Enlarge/Reduce Person spells also generally apply a modifier to).

Gnomes are also Small-sized creatures.
Last edited by Naked Granny; Oct 7, 2018 @ 6:10pm
StevenXu Oct 7, 2018 @ 6:14pm 
That’s the most annoying problem in dnd or pnp games, everything is trying to override others. The ac, the hit.

Why not just simply add them all and limit the crazy number in equipments or spells?
Attelso Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:13pm 
The wizard familiar lizard natural armor bonus stacks with other natural armor.

In addition this also gives you access to the reduce spell which gives you another +1 ac from size (+2 if your already small)
Last edited by Attelso; Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:14pm
wwolf69 Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:23pm 
Dodge and some natural armor are cumulative. All others - doesn't.
Halfling bonus is size bonus (small er things are harder to hit).
For rising highter look for feats, like Armor Focus, natural armor (dragon diciple for example), team feats and some other feats (like combat expertise).
Uncanny dodge is good too.
.O. Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:31pm 
my memory may be wrong, but I think mutagen and enchament(e.g. Cat's grace) do stack because they count as different things?
Randomz Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:34pm 
Originally posted by .O.:
my memory may be wrong, but I think mutagen and enchament(e.g. Cat's grace) do stack because they count as different things?
I'm not too familiar with the alchemist in general but they should because the mutagen ability specifically says:

"Upon being imbibed, the mutagen causes the alchemist to grow bulkier and more bestial, granting him a +2 natural armor bonus and a +4 alchemical bonus to the selected ability score for 10 minutes per alchemist level."

Where as cat's grace and similar buffs specify that they provide enhancement bonuses.
Last edited by Randomz; Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:34pm
Grymm Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:44pm 
Canny Defense (Duelist, Sword Saint) stacks, although it probably shouldn't. Dragon Disciple Natural Armor Stacks with other sources of NA. Multiclassing like a maniac can give you massively broken AC.

Example, Monk 4, Aldori Defender 3, Sword Saint 4, Duelist 4. Int, Wis (or Cha), Dex all at 18.
Self Buff only, with only a Duelling Sword Equipped. (Add more AC as you put on Gear).

Defensive Fighting is worth 3 (Mobility 3+), Crane Style Adds 1, Crane Wing is another 4, Duelling Sword Mastery 2, Monk Wis (or Cha if Scaled Fist) 4, Duelist Canny Int 4, Sword Saint Canny Int 4, Mage Armor 4, Shield 4, Barkskin (Monk Ki) 2, Dodge 1, Wings (Aasimar) 3.

36 + 10 Base = 46. As this is only a lvl 15 build, with 'moderate' stats, and no Equipment. By 20 gear should be able to push you into 50s easily, 60s seems doable. Plus all the 'better' buffs that a character can get...
Last edited by Grymm; Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:47pm
Naked Granny Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:47pm 
Originally posted by StevenXu:
That’s the most annoying problem in dnd or pnp games, everything is trying to override others. The ac, the hit.

Why not just simply add them all and limit the crazy number in equipments or spells?

Because it's really extremely simple. If you haven't ever read the sentence before, here it is:

Bonuses of the same type overlap, except for Dodge and un-typed bonuses.

That wasn't so bad, was it?
Naked Granny Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:49pm 
Originally posted by Grymm:
Dragon Disciple Natural Armor Stacks with other sources of NA.

Dragon Disciple improves your Natural Armor. Most races have a Natural Armor of 0.

Barkskin and Amulets Of Natural Armor gives you an enhancement typed bonus to your Natural Armor. Barkskin and Amulets should be overlapping, not stacking with each other.
Last edited by Naked Granny; Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:50pm
Grymm Oct 7, 2018 @ 11:55pm 
Yup, its just easier to say DD Stacks NA with other sources, than to explain why it does so, at least in a 'beginner' thread about how AC works. In the Example build I only have 1 source of NA, and its not even a great one, by 15+ someone should have better than a +2 Natural Armor, if they are the designated Dodge / AC monkey for the group.
Elite Seraph Nov 21, 2018 @ 4:32am 
Originally posted by Grymm:
Defensive Fighting is worth 3 (Mobility 3+), Crane Style Adds 1, Crane Wing is another 4, Duelling Sword Mastery 2, Monk Wis (or Cha if Scaled Fist) 4, Duelist Canny Int 4, Sword Saint Canny Int 4, Mage Armor 4, Shield 4, Barkskin (Monk Ki) 2, Dodge 1, Wings (Aasimar) 3.

36 + 10 Base = 46. As this is only a lvl 15 build, with 'moderate' stats, and no Equipment. By 20 gear should be able to push you into 50s easily, 60s seems doable. Plus all the 'better' buffs that a character can get...

This is broken as hell:

Canny defense shouldn't be stacking with itself. It's the same buff. Yes, they're technically both "dodge" bonuses, but it would be like casting mage armor twice on the same person. Expect this to be nerfed.

You added aldori shield bonus on top of the shield spell. They're both shield bonuses to AC and won't stack.

Everything else looks solid. It's still a VERY high AC build. If things were working properly, you'd still be sitting at 40 without any deflection bonuses

Last edited by Elite Seraph; Nov 21, 2018 @ 4:34am
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Date Posted: Oct 7, 2018 @ 5:42pm
Posts: 37