Tristian build options

[Real Magic Duck]

What would be some compelling builds for Tristian? Build toward Mystic Theurge via sorc or wizard? Or just stay the course of the cleric for the high level cleric spells and features?

[Selvokaz]

i tried him as a mystic theurge but honestly i feel like i should have kept him as a straight cleric, the slowed spell progression really hurts when you want someone who can heal you quickly, or remove certain status effects, unless you're the main healer, making him stunt his progression sucks, even with support healers like linzi or jubilost potentially helping out.

[TimidObserver]

I don't want to lose a caster level, but I am tempted to dip him 1 level into monk to get his AC up. Qualifying for Mystic Theurge eats up too many caster levels.

[aef8234]

Originally posted by TimidObserver:

I don't want to lose a caster level, but I am tempted to dip him 1 level into monk to get his AC up. Qualifying for Mystic Theurge eats up too many caster levels.

Tristian isn't lawful

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

For MT if you want to build him for that just do Emphyreal(i probably butchered that name) Sorcerer he'll use his wisdom as his primary attribute, 4 sorcerer 3 cleric> 10 MT and however you want to do the rest. I will say you will only get to i think level 6 spells in both and lose out on channel energy BUT you end up with being able to cast alot of healing spells in retrospect... as you can cast cure spells as arcane spells of a level higher. So it probably evens out in the end...

But that said... if you intend for him to be your main healer don't... MT is more of a support caster less of a main healer as they do lag behind everyone else. They make up for it in verstaility BUT takes a long time before they start really showing how good they are.

if you do 5/5/10 you will end with 15th level divine and arcane spells which isn't to shabby... i wish they had practiced caster in pathfinder as that fixes some of the classes problems letting you scale up to level 19 in caster levels at least.

[Real Magic Duck]

Off topic, but I can't find the answer. Is there armor or shield restrictions applied to druids? I have Valerie multiclassed into a fey druid and I'm unsure of any reasons why I shouldn't have her in heavier armor or use heavy shields.

[For_Science!]

Originally posted by Real Magic Duck:

Off topic, but I can't find the answer. Is there armor or shield restrictions applied to druids? I have Valerie multiclassed into a fey druid and I'm unsure of any reasons why I shouldn't have her in heavier armor or use heavy shields.

Druids can use heavy shield, and up to medium armor...with one big caveat. They can't wear metal armor, which puts a serious dent in their choices.

[aef8234]

Speaking of, does ecclisierach have similar limits to druid? Tristain cant cast his cleric spells while wearing any armor.

[Balkoth]

I went straight cleric and made him my buffing/channel energy battery. I am sure there are way more compelling uses for him, but I already did 4 levels of Ranger for Harrim and I wasn't going to mess around with the only other cleric in the game.

[Randomz]

Originally posted by aef8234:

Speaking of, does ecclisierach have similar limits to druid? Tristain cant cast his cleric spells while wearing any armor.

Even with proficiency he will still lose his cleric abilities while wearing armor.

[Simmeon]

Originally posted by Randomz:

Originally posted by aef8234:

Speaking of, does ecclisierach have similar limits to druid? Tristain cant cast his cleric spells while wearing any armor.

Even with proficiency he will still lose his cleric abilities while wearing armor.

Yeah which wasted a proficiency slot for me...

[Altonu]

Originally posted by AzureTheGamerKobold:

For MT if you want to build him for that just do Emphyreal(i probably butchered that name) Sorcerer he'll use his wisdom as his primary attribute, 4 sorcerer 3 cleric> 10 MT and however you want to do the rest. I will say you will only get to i think level 6 spells in both and lose out on channel energy BUT you end up with being able to cast alot of healing spells in retrospect... as you can cast cure spells as arcane spells of a level higher. So it probably evens out in the end...

But that said... if you intend for him to be your main healer don't... MT is more of a support caster less of a main healer as they do lag behind everyone else. They make up for it in verstaility BUT takes a long time before they start really showing how good they are.

if you do 5/5/10 you will end with 15th level divine and arcane spells which isn't to shabby... i wish they had practiced caster in pathfinder as that fixes some of the classes problems letting you scale up to level 19 in caster levels at least.

This is basically what I plan to do with him. A cleric that can't wear armor, needs to do more than just heal and buff to have a place in my party, but he is the only Cleric companion we get (edit: oops, completely forgot about the dwarf cleric).

As one of the previous posters mentioned, its gonna hurt quite a bit at the beginning, being effectivly 4 cleric levels behind where he would be as a pure cleric, but I think it will be worthwhile in the end. Just to be safe though, I rolled a lvl 1 pure cleric henchman I've got shelved (gainign party exp while inactive) if I start to have my regrets in the early or mid game.

After doing a bit of research, what I found interesting is that Sorcs have a slightly different spell level progression than Wizards, Clerics and Druids. Sorcs require lvl 18 to get 9th level spells, so no build you can do with a Mystic Theurge will ever get 9th lvl arcane spells (if you want wizard, you could be "elligible" for 9th lvl spells, but not have the int to cast them with Tristian). The tradeoff is that they get more spells per day (at least when they first hit a new spell level).

The sweet spots for Sorc arcane progression are
04 (lvl 2 arcane spells - min needed for Mystic Theurge)
14 (lvl 7 arcane spells)
16 (lvl 8 arcane spells).
18 (lvl 9 arcane spells - not achievable with 10 levels of MT)

Since sorcs get more spells to choose from at non-key levels, they have a bit more benefit from going a level beyond the min for a spell tier, else you only have 1 spell of your top tier to "choose" from.

For clerics, the new spell gains are at the following key levels.
13 (lvl 7 divine spells)
15 (lvl 8 divine spells)
17 (lvl 9 divine spells - not achievable as a Sorc MT)

With 10 levels of MT, 4 of Sorc, and 6 of Cleric, that would get you lvl 7 Arcane spells and lvl 8 Divine spells.

With 10 levels of MT, 6 of Sorc, and 4 of cleirc, you would get lvl 8 arcane spells and lvl 7 divine spells.

You could also choose to not go the full 10 in MT if you wanted to push Divine or Arcane spells to 9th, but it would be a noticable hit to the class you sacrificed to do it as well as missing out on any lvl 10 MT ability if one exists.

Without a spell list to reference, I really don't know what I'm giving up in terms of lvl 8 and 9 spells for either of these options.

The other problem is that without a spell list, its very hard to plan the precious few spells a sorc gets each level (ie, are there lvl 5 spells that would make a lvl 1 or 2 pick obsolete?). All I really have to go by is avoid HD limited spells like the plague and my memory of NWN and hoping a similar selection is available.

So, my question on this is, what long duration spells can I use to make Tristian less squishy?
Mage armor helps, and Octavia can cast it on him, so he does not need to waste a pick on it.
Beyond that I've onyl seen the 2nd lvl spells that are in the game since I keep re-rolling :)

[Babbles]

As Arse Biscuits as Harrim is, just use Harrim.

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

People always seem to say " oh but you lost caster levels and 9th level spells" this is absolutely true but you are effectively a cleric/wizard or sorcerer who can cast spells as a 15/15 in both classes (or a slight variation there of) being able to cast spells from BOTH classes and swap spells from both is super interesting. Suddenly those 8 second level spells in arcane can cast cure light wounds... and since you have a ton of them it's not crazy to use them, i think the MT is probably my favorite PRC even if i know its not optimal i love the idea of someone who is trying to master all magic, and doesn't neccesarily see a difference between divine and arcane. To an MT there is only magic.

Edit:

also if you are trying to make an MT your main healer don't it will fail, they are not great healers as channel energy will suck for them (which also makes tristans first couple feats sub-optimal) so dont build them with healing in mind.