Best level dip for a cleric

[Finrod]

Hello,
I am planning to restart my playthrough with a MC cleric (basic non ecclesitheurge)
Let's imagine I reach level 17 and level 9 spells, and that I can reach level 20
Where do you recommend to level the last 3 ?
(Thinking of difficulty, normal or the level above)
One level into monk perhaps? (So cleric should have legal alignment)

[Eonwe]

Depends what you plan to do with your cleric. Monk levels are always good to get more AC, but dipping into monk alone is not going to make your cleric a tank, and AC is kind of a all or nothing stat.

[InEffect]

actually 1 dip in monk is enough to reach around 65AC even on a str pumping cleric. Caster cleric can reach 70 with just 1 monk dip

[Finrod]

Ok, thanks, I'll take it into account
:)

[1ttffsse]

I think thug is fine too if you go the dazzle route, pump persuasion and have your support cleric as the party dazzle bot after buffing everyone and dropping some blade barriers/summons. That seems like an effective build as clerics for all their versatility never make the strongest pure dc mages nor attack bonus melee damage dealers. So having a guy who buffs and dazzles seems good.

[rakshasa72]

Take 3 dips in Sorcerer and go Mystic Theurge. Shared casting between Cleric and Sorcerer is probably one of the best things in this game.

[1ttffsse]

Originally posted by rakshasa72:

Take 3 dips in Sorcerer and go Mystic Theurge. Shared casting between Cleric and Sorcerer is probably one of the best things in this game.

really painful and slow spell progression on that unless it is a toon you keep in the capital and just bring out in the end game. and wizard is better in the end because at least that way you get 9th level spells.
with cleric you are best going pure and maybe 1 level monk dip if you want to scale power the best throughout the game for the class, at the end once you get level 9 cleric spells maybe dip into monk, vivisectionist or thug.

[Eonwe]

Originally posted by InEffect:

actually 1 dip in monk is enough to reach around 65AC even on a str pumping cleric. Caster cleric can reach 70 with just 1 monk dip

without any dodge feats like crane ? because you'd have to build accordingly if you need those

[InEffect]

with the crane wing, butdepends on a build. If you make a caster cleric he just might reach 70 without crane if he hogs enough top items

[Finrod]

Originally posted by rakshasa72:

Take 3 dips in Sorcerer and go Mystic Theurge. Shared casting between Cleric and Sorcerer is probably one of the best things in this game.

The theurge requires level 2 arcane casting so 4 levels in sorcerer or 3 in wizard
Not a good dip for the last three levels 18, 19, 20...

When do a theurge get level 9 spells (in one class) with theurge, by level 20? And no higher domain powers...

I played twice PnP with motivated players who wanted to be mystic theurge, once until level 7, and once until level 10... And they were like crippled characters... Any pure would have done better at those levels. A Theurge really takes a lot to shine, and I think they do, but only at the highest levels.

Originally posted by 1ttffsse:

unless it is a toon you keep in the capital and just bring out in the end game.

Agreed.

[InEffect]

even at the high levels it's nothing too spectacular. Sure it's CL 17 wiz CL 13 cler... Not too bad, but then you could be a scroll savant10/V2/AT8, use all those spells through scrolls and never suffer a day of your life.
I guess the only cool application of a theurge is Sloth/asmodeus as you still get scorching rays that way. But that's just cool and not strong

[1ttffsse]

Since the title stated best level dip ideas for cleric here are the contenders that come to my mind:

Melee / attacks
18 CL (base of crusader or ecclesi)/ 1 Monk / 1 Viv
*note can be Cleric CL 17 with with 1 Monk / 1 Viv/ 1 Thug or 2 Viv for extra feat

Bow + Pets
17 CL (base or Herald Caller) / 3 Monster Tactician (summoner)

Ranged/ Caster Nuker
18 Ecclesi / 2 Viv (Wisdom Cognatagon)
17 Ecclesi / 2 Viv / 1 Thug
18 Ecclesi / 1 Viv / 1 Thug

[InEffect]

Outside of gimmicks ecc17/V2/M1 is the best you can do. Either Erastil Community+Animal or Gozreh Water+Animal. Will have both AC to (off)tank and ok-ish DC for the stinking couds(if gozreh). Bonus points if you fit in profane ammy there. Erastil probably wants to go evo to debuff enemies saves for his party CC-ers.

[1ttffsse]

yeah I also forgot that 2 level dip in Seinsai allows you to get attack bonus through wisdom if you use a staff for example which is a monk weapon, can be useful too given that if it is a merc or secondary character he may not be loaded with all the best +str/ +dex items.

[InEffect]

As I said autoattacking cleric is a gimmick. Just cast instead. sensei 1 is ok if you can't fit in bard for some reason. Main problem with sensei is that if you want AA cler you are better off going traditional monk and stacking str. Clerics have loads of Str buffs for that.

[1ttffsse]

Originally posted by Finrod:

Originally posted by rakshasa72:

Take 3 dips in Sorcerer and go Mystic Theurge. Shared casting between Cleric and Sorcerer is probably one of the best things in this game.

The theurge requires level 2 arcane casting so 4 levels in sorcerer or 3 in wizard
Not a good dip for the last three levels 18, 19, 20...

When do a theurge get level 9 spells (in one class) with theurge, by level 20? And no higher domain powers...

I played twice PnP with motivated players who wanted to be mystic theurge, once until level 7, and once until level 10... And they were like crippled characters... Any pure would have done better at those levels. A Theurge really takes a lot to shine, and I think they do, but only at the highest levels.

Originally posted by 1ttffsse:

unless it is a toon you keep in the capital and just bring out in the end game.

Agreed.

The only way I found playing with mystic theurge in my party enjoyable is if I sacrifice spell progression even more and take 1 level dip in Vivesectionist or Thug before going mystic theurge (somewhere after the three ecclesi levls and 3 specialist wizard levels).

At least that way you can get sneak attack+improved sneak attack so you are doing a little bit of damage on all your wiz+ecclisi ranged touch spells that you get through your wizard specialization and two cleric domains. Also After just getting greater spell focus: conjuration I go into weapon focus: rat and dazzling display so the theurge can also dazzle when not doing jack.
Goodbye level 9 wiz spells this way but after completing mystic theurge 10 levels I would go into arcane trickster to up the sneak damage. Or a second level of viv for wisdom cognatagon as all your heavy evocation touch nukes etc are now in priest slots when you take domain fire or weather (say hi sirrico).

So you essentially have a watered down AT ray nuker with priest/cleric spells at a decent levels thrown in, but with very slow spell progression.