How are you supposed to play Magus?

[pyremind]

I'm confused by this char. I run up and attack, and then start spamming acid touch usually. But I think I've seen the enemy get attacks off opportunity when I do this?

Anyway, is that the proper way to fight with a Magus? Begin auto attack, and spam a touch spell ect.?

[Eonwe]

It is, tho the AI tends to cast from a safe distance then go into melee. This is both safer (no AoO) and annoying, since you can't move and make a full attack on the same round.

Usually you want to cast enlarge person on your magus so that he has reach, this way he can attack from behind the tanks and will not provok attacks of opportunity.

Later on, magi get an ability to not provok AoO when they cast in melee, can't remember the exact details of the top of my head.

Magi may seem a bit weak to begin with, but they catch up and become very good dps, because their 2/3 BAB won't be a problem with the proper gear / buffs, as well as very good tanks thanks to mirror images.

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

So a magus can't cast a spell and deliver a full attack in the same round. Casting is a standard action that with the magus ability lets you deliver a FREE attack that round. So if you have a mevement speed of 30', you can cast from less than 30' away, and move and deliver in one round. If you're more than 30', your round will be wasted in casting the spell and moving 30' and not delivering the touch attack through your weapon.

I don't there there is any ability that let's you negate AoO's from casting. Your chracter in this auto defensivelly casts, so picking up combat casting and making sure your casting stat is half decent is important.

[Autocthon]

Originally posted by =NK= Col. Jack O'Neil:

So a magus can't cast a spell and deliver a full attack in the same round. Casting is a standard action that with the magus ability lets you deliver a FREE attack that round. So if you have a mevement speed of 30', you can cast from less than 30' away, and move and deliver in one round. If you're more than 30', your round will be wasted in casting the spell and moving 30' and not delivering the touch attack through your weapon.

I don't there there is any ability that let's you negate AoO's from casting. Your chracter in this auto defensivelly casts, so picking up combat casting and making sure your casting stat is half decent is important.

...

Spell Combat allows casting and a full attack. Spell Strike allows you to deliver touch attacks as weapon attacks. You begin the game with spell combat (meaning you begin the game perfectly capable of casting and making a full attack in the same round). You generally get spell strike at level 2 (meaning you can now auto cast touch of fatigue for an extra attack every round). The AI when at range will opt to cast a spell if it's set to autocast. At second level if the spell is a melee touch attack you'll cast the spell, move up to 30 feet, then deliver the spell as an attack. Generally I enable auto casts after the first round and I've closed with the enemy, though it's safer to let a Magus go in after other characters anyway so no harm if autocast is already set.

As far as casting defensively... Magus gets some extra bonuses to casting defensively and combat casting helps. However due to the nature of casting defensively (concentration check against DC 15 + Twice Spell level) the highest DC a Magus will ever have is 27. A concentration check is d20 + caster level + ability modifier. Maguses can get innate bonuses to concentration checks (though archetypes change this). To have 0 failure chance on a level 6 spell a magus will never need less than a +7 or more than +11 total to their rolls (after caster level). If your archetype grants a concentration bonus this means you don't actually need combat casting (it quickly becomes useless).

@OP: Generally yes. the correct way to play a Magus is to cast touch spells and wail on people in melee.

[Eonwe]

Originally posted by =NK= Col. Jack O'Neil:

So a magus can't cast a spell and deliver a full attack in the same round. Casting is a standard action that with the magus ability lets you deliver a FREE attack that round. So if you have a mevement speed of 30', you can cast from less than 30' away, and move and deliver in one round. If you're more than 30', your round will be wasted in casting the spell and moving 30' and not delivering the touch attack through your weapon.

You can cast a spell and do a full attack as a magus but you can't cast a spell, then move, then do a full attack.

So at the start of the combat you can let the ai do its thing : it'll wait its turn from safe distance, then cast, then move, then do 1 attack. Or you can manually send your magus in melee range and wait for your turn there, so he can cast and then do a full attack.

Also as you progress you get +concentration abilities, which lets you avoid AoO's.

[haplok]

My preferred method to avoid annoyance of my SS casting before crawling into melee is to use the Charge command. It will ensure that you quickly cover ground and attack once. Next turn you're in melee range and can use SpellCombat to its full potential.

[Autocthon]

Originally posted by haplok:

My preferred method to avoid annoyance of my SS casting before crawling into melee is to use the Charge command. It will ensure that you quickly cover ground and attack once. Next turn you're in melee range and can use SpellCombat to its full potential.

Charge is primarily useful if you need to cover more than 30'

If the enemy is within one round's movement range a touch spell will get you an attack in the same round you cast it. Charge will trade the spell for double movement range, -2 AC, and +2 AB

[haplok]

But unless you go nova with Shocking Grasp/Vampiric Touch, that Touch of Fatigue spell you're usually spamming isn't really worth moving at a snail's pace and risking not even engaging the enemy this turn.

[Autocthon]

Originally posted by haplok:

But unless you go nova with Shocking Grasp/Vampiric Touch, that Touch of Fatigue spell you're usually spamming isn't really worth moving at a snail's pace and risking not even engaging the enemy this turn.

You can check distance pretty simply, and you can always cancel an action into another action.

If the distance is less than 30' that snail's pace does just as much in the turn as charging in and costs relatively little (unless you desperately need the attack bonus).

Note: I like using charge too. I just don't charge every chance I get,

[Schanez]

You provoke an AoO only if you fail your Concentration check during casting in melee. You get a very good bonus to it as magus, although I still highly advise to pick up Combat Casting for that +4 as early as possible. Dex build Magus Human with Weapon Finesse and Combat Casting on level 1 is good.

Str build can be anyone really. You can drop the Touch of Fatigue on auto cast, so from level 2 onwards you get a cast-melee and a melee as if you were fighting with two weapons.

[haplok]

Originally posted by Schanez:

Dex build Magus Human with Weapon Finesse and Combat Casting on level 1 is good.

A Sword Saint would want Slashing/Fencing Grace...

[Autocthon]

Originally posted by haplok:

Originally posted by Schanez:

Dex build Magus Human with Weapon Finesse and Combat Casting on level 1 is good.

A Sword Saint would want Slashing/Fencing Grace...

Str SS is perfectly viable. As viable as Str monk at the very least.

But combat casting becomes a dead feat anyway. Not worth.

[LevelSix_SYSTEM]

I think Arcane Tricksters will always be better than magus as their sneak dmg is pretty much always added to even their cantrips, get all the bell n whistle spells and if you go Scaled Fist Monk/Thief/Sorcerer you can have a trickster that can tank and flank with another melee

[Autocthon]

Originally posted by Ankhseram:

I think Arcane Tricksters will always be better than magus as their sneak dmg is pretty much always added to even their cantrips, get all the bell n whistle spells and if you go Scaled Fist Monk/Thief/Sorcerer you can have a trickster that can tank and flank with another melee

Magus and AT have very different goals in how they deal damage.

A Magus can reliably bypass enemy defenses and can greatly increase their touch spell damage with an expanded threat range. And Arcane Pool adds additional damage dice as well.

An AT on the other hand either makes attacks or casts a spell (or quickens a spell and attacks, but that's expensive). They have no ability to multiply their bonus damage, and have a limited feat pool. An AT is better at AoE than a Magus by virtue of SA dice, but in terms of raw single target the Magus will have an edge.

[LevelSix_SYSTEM]

Originally posted by Autocthon:

Originally posted by Ankhseram:

I think Arcane Tricksters will always be better than magus as their sneak dmg is pretty much always added to even their cantrips, get all the bell n whistle spells and if you go Scaled Fist Monk/Thief/Sorcerer you can have a trickster that can tank and flank with another melee

Magus and AT have very different goals in how they deal damage.

A Magus can reliably bypass enemy defenses and can greatly increase their touch spell damage with an expanded threat range. And Arcane Pool adds additional damage dice as well.

An AT on the other hand either makes attacks or casts a spell (or quickens a spell and attacks, but that's expensive). They have no ability to multiply their bonus damage, and have a limited feat pool. An AT is better at AoE than a Magus by virtue of SA dice, but in terms of raw single target the Magus will have an edge.

Can a Magus deal Upwards 600-700 Damage single target? AT can with their multiray spells like hellfire ray and scorching ray
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAaYLKyrVKE

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Ankhseram:

Can a Magus deal Upwards 600-700 Damage single target? AT can with their multiray spells like hellfire ray and scorching ray
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAaYLKyrVKE

I cba to read the entire discussion but..

This video was released in october. There was a point in time when sneak attack would trigger off every ray fired. This was changed and it now only affects the first ray. Please point it out if that is not the case, preferably with screen shots.

In addition hitting (ANY) ray attacks on AT is very unlikely on high difficulties due to ATs poor BAB progression. They also dont benefit from weapon bouses (e.g. +5 weapon) while magus can use weapon AND target touch (magus class special attack mods). Id suggest trying a hellfire build with divine classes or eldritch knight. Its still fairly strong but very questionable on unfair - if you can find a way to consistently hit all rays it will be excellent but i dont really see a way of that happening in a legit game on unfair.

Also im pretty sure haplok posted sword saint hitting a 700 crit the other day.

With an arcane scion with 1 viv + Sense vitals from the bloodline you will be potentially hitting more than 700 per round with maximized+empowered spells, crits and good items just by attacking repeatedly.