Thoughts on Classes: Fighter Edition

[New Willinium]

So this has been something on my mind for a while now as something that might be fun for this forum and create some good discussion about a subject SO vital to the game itself. . .The classes. We have a LOOOOT of classes in this game, not including the Prestige Classes which will likely just get rolled into one thread, with four variations to each of these classes to build our characters in different ways.


So today's subject? The ever so humble Fighter class that has been a staple since day one of DnD. This class has four variations: The Base Fighter, The Tower Shield Specialist, The Aldori Defender, and the Two Handed Fighter.

Now the Base Fighter everyone knows, they are the class that tends to get the most feats overall and are focused on front-line combat. They are very basic but useful for any party or newcomer to the DnD/Pathfinder gaming system as, though they become less useful at higher levels compared to the wizards or clerics, they never quite lose their usefulness.

Thankfully we have some variations on this base class in this game to spice up the class a bit.

Of the three we have I must say that the Two-Handed Fighter and the Aldori Defender stick out amongst the others.

In regards to the former this is the class you play if you want to wield a big ol' Longsword, Greatsword ,or Bastard Sword in order to kick ass and take names and it pretty much just lets you get better at that as you level up. It's simple but still really good for your Heroic Adventurer to take.

As for the Latter? Well the Aldori Defender is very much a flavorful RP class that works as a Fighter wielding light or no armor. Weird right? Well get this the reason that this class works is because of three things: Starting off with a Dueling Sword Proficiency (there are some great ones in this game), The ability to counterattack anything that hits you in melee, and being able to disarm enemies while buffing your weapon. It's a pretty decent class that works pretty well on it's own.


As for the Tower Shield Specialist? . . . I cannot say that I am a fan. It's. . . fine. Just fine if you want a tank to survive as long as possible but it takes so long to get anywhere DECENT that I can't ever really see myself playing it on my PC.


And those are my thoughts on the Fighter and it's subclasses, what about the rest of y'all? What do you think of this class and it's archetypes? Are a fan of one over the other? Do you think this is a good class to multi-class into? What are the positives and downsides of the class, and archetypes, in your opinion?

[Eonwe]

There's not much to say really.

TSS is not very good.
Aldori defender is more of a multiclass pick, tho it's a good one.
2h fighter hits like a freight train without ever needing to rest.

I very much enjoy playing a 2h fighter.

[InEffect]

TSS is the only fighter that ramps touch AC, so it's the best one for armor users. Pure class fighters can't reach good damage anyways, so at least being tanky is an option. That being said staple Valerie build of TSS11/Thug4/M1/Vivisectionist3/Stalwart1 if pretty decent at what it does.

Aldori can be ok-ish Dex tank if coupled with monk and Vivisectionist. And he gets Fighter Tactics at level9 to ramp up some AoO's.

2HF is much worse than it looks. You pretty much trade 7 levels for extra 12 damage. And thats given you get 48-50Str somehow. Doesn't get fighter tactics, so you'd have to add 3 levels of inquisitor there rapidly scaling opportunity cost. Guess you can get away with 2HF 3 to soup up those AoO attacks And go for something like 2HF3/Vivisectionist 12/Monk1/Rogue4 to have some decent damage, strength, AC, and Opportunist if you really want some use out of the class(but others do it better)

[Eonwe]

Originally posted by InEffect:

2HF is much worse than it looks. You pretty much trade 7 levels for extra 12 damage. And thats given you get 48-50Str somehow. Doesn't get fighter tactics, so you'd have to add 3 levels of inquisitor there rapidly scaling opportunity cost. Guess you can get away with 2HF 3 to soup up those AoO attacks And go for something like 2HF3/Vivisectionist 12/Monk1/Rogue4 to have some decent damage, strength, AC, and Opportunist if you really want some use out of the class(but others do it better)

You're such a buzz killer :(

[InEffect]

Originally posted by Eonwe:

You're such a buzz killer :(

I'm sorry, it has to be that way. It's not you, it's me.

[Arturick1]

2HF is better in a party dynamic than it appears in a mathematical vacuum. TWF Rogues/Vivis/Arcane Tricksters/etc. will do more damage in most encounters, but will promptly grab their ankles and get punished by Elder Water Elementals and other crit/SA immune enemies.

I like having a brute with a glaive or falchion dropping reliable damage.

[InEffect]

I mean 2hf is not the worst class out there by any means. It's just you can do two-handed fighter so much better than that should you just drop the 2HF levels.

[Wingstorm]

Wait... you mean people actually play the (player) fighter as a frontliner?

A fighter is SO MUCH stronger as an archer. Just go basic fighter, focus on a longbows and pretty much shoot the hell out of anything that moves.
As you level up, your feats will allow you to ignore any penalties of range combat and you can do even more damage with more attacks via rapid shot and many shot. Cluster shot will make DR useless vs you.

Its actually very sad to see that all 3 fighter archetype being some form of melee focus archetype. They really should have included Archer or Weapon Master, to give people more options.

[InEffect]

There are far better archers than fighter will ever be. That's why. At least the ones that are in the game.

[Eonwe]

I've played with a merc fighter archer a while back, it's fun, it does the job, but i have to agree that there are better options for archers.

[PhocasByz]

Originally posted by InEffect:

That being said staple Valerie build of TSS11/Thug4/M1/Vivisectionist3/Stalwart1 if pretty decent at what it does.

i presume M1 is for basic Monk 1 level
but i don't see what Thug4 mean

[Mortheim]

Originally posted by PhocasByz:

i presume M1 is for basic Monk 1 level
but i don't see what Thug4 mean

Thug is an Archetype of the Rogue.

[Schutzengel]

I really miss a fighter archetype or in general any class / kit that goes heavily into dual wield.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fighter-archetypes/two-weapon-warrior

[Eonwe]

Originally posted by Schutzengel:

I really miss a fighter archetype or in general any class / kit that goes heavily into dual wield.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fighter-archetypes/two-weapon-warrior

While this kit is not available, you can totally do a TWF fighter in this game. You have all the tools to make it really effective.

[CHAO$$$]

Originally posted by Eonwe:

Originally posted by Schutzengel:

I really miss a fighter archetype or in general any class / kit that goes heavily into dual wield.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fighter-archetypes/two-weapon-warrior

While this kit is not available, you can totally do a TWF fighter in this game. You have all the tools to make it really effective.

Ranger with two weapon style is where its at. Its one of the stronger classes in the varnhold DLC (and also one of the prebuilt companions although the loadout is much better in that particular DLC with shortsword since you can pick up double shock shortsword right at the start).

Its really good because you can get all the great two weapon feats that make two weapon style viable much much earlier with the ranger feat style (since those ignore some of the requirements) than you could normally. Slap on 1 level of viv or knife and youre melting stuff pretty hard.

Ranger also gets lead blade + Sense vitals which is (as always) insane with early two weapon style feats.

It does obviously fall off by lategame when everyone else could technically get those feats as well but until then its pretty nuts.

[CHAO$$$]

On other note how does backswing work out exactly? It effectively adds .5 strength mod since basic is 1.5 for 2H?

Anyone tried if its working with bite + haste + bash from stalwart defender (does the latter require a shield? its not mentioned in the description but i never got around to try it out and im kinda busy these days)?
I know it technically shouldnt work with those except haste but that doesnt necessairily mean it actually doesnt work. Clarification if someone tried them would be nice.

Also in some other thread a while back it was mentioned that when wielding 1H weapons alone they are counted as 2H. Can anyone confirm that (i.e. in this case working with backswing)? 2H fighter + menace should make sure those backswings connect.

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Talking about 2H i think vital strike could help quite a few classes in making better use of their "idle" time. I.e. those that dont get full BAB but dont want multiclass due to spell progression.

Characters with the artificer domain in particular could benefit from this since they get lead blades but not sense vitals.Basically the divine caster archetypes in general.. Some of the cleric domains with eccelsithurge are quite decent.
Trickery for a single mirror image as move action is surprisingly good for melee.
And you can pick up weird sirroco and some other pretty nutty mage spells along the way. Too bad the cleric spell list itself really doesnt do much until rank6