Your best/favorite tank builds

[Veganleader1]

I'm looking to put together a collection of tank builds and need your help with ideas. It will be great to have a long thread with a large variety of tank specs to choose from viewable on the forum here. Please, if anyone is interested in contributing, post your best tank specs below explaining all necessary info on stats/feats/level-up/gearing that might be needed to understand how it works. If it relies on outside buffs, then mention those buffs. In general it would be great if your build is effective at all levels through the game. I've only played on normal mode and not past act 6 yet, so the insight will help me, and maybe your ideas will help a whole lot of other players create good tanks for the game. Variety is gold here, as long as the character can effectively tank.

Thanks to all those willing to offer substantial content.

[Schanez]

Publicado originalmente por InEffect:

nice story difficulty tank compilation

I also am interested how are you getting monk AC while wearing heaviest armor(or any armor for that matter).

There is a high end monk robe with a +5 enhancement. You wear that as a 1 lvl dip allows you to.

The overall best in my opinion is the Paladin/Stalwart Defender. You remove the penalties of the Defensive Stance with Fatigue Mercy and you can easily cause a big no fun zone for enemies with Enlarge Person. You have access to Shield of Faith as well as excellent self healing sustain. Not to mention the best saving throws in the game, I believe. You can benefit from each stat, which makes the triple belts a highly recommended item. Charisma followed by Strength, followed by Dexterity and Constitution.

The best in terms of party utility as well as avoiding taking damage would be probably the Magus/Duelist. While having higher AC with tools such as Blur and Mirror Image, their saving throws are somewhat lagging behind a Paladin. They do have more versatility in terms of damage.

8. Magus Eldritch Scion 7/Scaled Fist Monk 1/Paladin 3/Dragon Disciple 10 - can be an interesting build, depending on preferences 2 levels of Eldritch Scion can be out into Paladin, to gain Channel Energy for little to no cost, or perhaps monk, if the weapon of choice would be the claws and bite, Paladin 2 offers bonus to saving throws, Monk opens up the robe, Charisma to AC as well as Crane Style fighting, Dragon Disciple gives some amazing stats boosts as well as insane amount of attacks per round with the claws and bite

[InEffect]

Publicado originalmente por Schanez:

There is a high end monk robe with a +5 enhancement. You wear that as a 1 lvl dip allows you to.

that's not the heaviest armor. that thing is literally a robe

[Schanez]

Publicado originalmente por InEffect:

Publicado originalmente por Schanez:

There is a high end monk robe with a +5 enhancement. You wear that as a 1 lvl dip allows you to.

that's not the heaviest armor. that thing is literally a robe

It is an item for later in the playthrough. So early on you would still wear a full plate. I would dip only after getting my hands on a good +Str&Dex belt as well as a +Cha tiara. Before that Heavy Armor is just superior.

[InEffect]

It's actually not. Whatever you can get will struggle to keep on par with no armor. The situation just gets worse the later it gets. And you can luck out to craft censor robes too.
And that is if we all agree to forget that paladin is largely useless in the endgame.

[nac]

ty bro

[haplok]

Let's see:
Act 1:
Full Plate +1 (1 Dex max): 10 + 1 AC = 11 AC total
vs
Mage Armor (4 AC, long lasting pot or buff) + Unlimited Dex and Wis/Cha. With 16 in each, that's 4 + 3 + 3 = 10 AC already. 14 AC with "animal" buffs (Cat & Owl). Additional Int bonus also if SS or Duelist (another +3-5).

Things only get worse for armor as you progress trough the game (although heavy armor gains +2 at the very beginning of Act 2.... but that's almost it - unless Fighter with Armor Training - while armorless just keeps getting better and better).

[Arden]

Publicado originalmente por InEffect:

You don't need dex saint to go through unfair. Str SS is just about 3AC lower, but with more feats meaning the AC will equalize soon though feats and he'll get shatter faster.
The fact that SS doesn't need to go dex to reach 70AC to tank unfair helps that decision as well and you get about 50% more damage and free feats as a result.
I am not a fan of vital strikes on them as it's way too inconsistent and resource-heavy. Lions claw offers 15-20 x4 for 150-200 crits by midgame anyways.

You can do act 1 and act 2 on unfair with the default companions as well. But it is messy, very suboptimal, time consuming and in general bad for your mental health.

The solution is very easy. Play the frontline with optimal dex builds till lvl 12-13. You can very easily stack them to 32+ dex and get all the damage and ac you need at max attack bonus. After that dust off the extra mercs you bought at lvl 1 and finish the game with your OP frontline build of choice.

You can switch to SS at lvl 8, he's safe to play by then. Still doing worse than vivi/monk but much better than vivi/TSS. Before that he's just not worth the extra time for reloading, babysitting and carrying.

[InEffect]

anything with a lot of true strikes and able to wield a crossbow is decent enough imo. Generally all you do in act 1 is flat-footed true-stike ranged salvo. Having anything but pets and summons on the frontline is meh, imo. And levels flow rather fast in a team of 3-4 which is much more comfortable on unfair.

[Schanez]

It is... Usually the case, that no armor will outscale the heavy armor. That is why Alchemist and Magus are one of the best Tanks in the game.

Mage Armor with Shielf of Faith gives you at least 16 AC with unlimited +Dex. Consider a Magus/Duelist with three Potions in the bag. Shielf of Faith, Mage Armor and Barkskin. That is 10 base AC + 4AC from Mage Armor, +2(max +5)AC deflection bonus, +3 AC from natural armor bonus, +Dex Modifier and finally twice +Int Modifier.

Considering a max Dex/Int build on a level 5 character, that would easily be 28AC with 20 Dex and 18 Int when buffed. You can easily push it much higher as you go on. With a +6 Dex and +6 Int items as well as end game spells, you get a 14 Mage Armor, 5 Shielf of Faith, 3 Barkskin (I totally forgot if it scales or not, tabletob version scales up to +5), +9 from 28 Dex, +14 from double 24 Int. Which gives you a nice 45 AC on level 20. Add to that Mirror Image, Blurr and you are one tanky Magus. Good thing is, that the Int to AC is considered Dodge bonus, so it applies against Touch Attacks as well.

The important thing to remember in Pathfinder is, that there is no real tank role in the game. There are characters better suited to dodge incoming attacks. But... Consider the fact that a Dazzling Display on a Paladin equals more or less +2 AC to your entire party, as it applies the Shaken debuff to everyone within 30ft. Power Attack+Cornugon Smash does the same for free as you attack, but only against one enemy, more if you have the Cleave and Greater Cleave. Bane is also a very good debuff to raise your party survivability.

So while BAB raises faster than your AC does, you have means of lowering the BAB of enemies, while there are none to lower their AC. That is why crowd control plays such a big role in the game. Grease, Color Spray and Company are just too good in making your group that more tanky. Drop your prepared "tank" into a choke point and drop a grease right in front of them. Any enemy who fails their saving throw and falls down is not attacking. When they get up, they provoke attack of opportunity. If you blind them, dazzle them, fear them... It all provokes additional attacks or makes the enemies vulnerable to your attacks. I cannot stretch how important it is to gang up on enemies. That is why I usually use two or three front liners, each with the teamwork feat to buff the flanking bonus.

End of the day, it is known for years in the D&D community, that damage is more important, than tankiness. As the faster you take someone out of the fight, the faster they will stop trying to attack you. It all falls down to action economy and focusing the right enemies down.

[InEffect]

cornugon is a trash trap feat as it requires 2 hits to work. Shatter and dazzle are not unique to paladin. literally every melee uses those two feats.
Just concede. You need a lot more to learn about optimization in PK.
In Pk tanks are possible cause AI is dumb as a clam, and it's perfectly possible to do 100-ish average damage per hit while having untouchable AC and spells on top of that. Paladin is just a waste of space and is easily replaced by a simple cleric buff if you really want those saves.
And I am talking about your paladin just because your other builds are even worse.

[haplok]

"you have means of lowering the BAB of enemies, while there are none to lower their AC."

What about...
Shatter Defenses
Hold Person/Monster
Vinetrap/Chains of Light
Glitterdust
Boneshatter
Prone
Entangle
Ray of Fatigue/Waves of Exhaustion
Bestow curse
Stun
Tiring/Exhausting Critical

Brilliant Energy
Magnetic Infusion

[InEffect]

there is also that thing nobody uses. Sunder Armor or whatever.

[haplok]

Publicado originalmente por InEffect:

there is also that thing nobody uses. Armor crush or whatever.

Right. Sundering Blow.
Works only on armored enemies though... none of the late game enemies use armor, sadly (and I was really looking forward to Brilliant Energy :( ).

[InEffect]

Good news are you get ghost touch with brilliant. And that is actually usable. Not that saint has space for that anyways. Maybe at level 18, but I prefer taking quicken there for utility.

[haplok]

Level 12 pick for me.
It's not like you can get something better. And you meet a lot of ghost type enemies in Act IV tomb. Plus might actually use Brilliant when it's of some use - in Acts IV and V (not that you really need it against these enemies).

Level 15 its Bane time.