Hold Animal vs Slurk

[Dixon Sider]

So are slurks not animals or something? they look like frogs. im trying to cast dominate animal and hold animal on these guys, but my character seems confused. Whats the deal with these guys? or these spells

[valky]

Slurks are Magical beasts ( https://pathfinder.fandom.com/wiki/Slurk )

Animal in the biological sense, but its creature type is Magical Beast, not Animal .. kinda

Hold Monster should work as intended.

edit: just checked again, and there was a similar discussion with Owlbears, where the spell also is not working

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by valky:

Slurks are Magical beasts ( https://pathfinder.fandom.com/wiki/Slurk )

Animal in the biological sense, but its creature type is Magical Beast, not Animal .. kinda

Hold Monster should work as intended.

Ok so beasts are not animals, but they are monsters? is there a table with the hierarchy between the types anywhere? Like vermin = monster im assuming? anything I search animals under comes up with animal companions

[valky]

This is the step, where a true pathfinder fanboi needs to jump in :P
My knowledge is restricted to some dabbling in d&d 1.5-3.5E and that was quite some time ago.

oh: the creature type is 'magical beast' - similar to fav enemy-type of the ranger. It's not just beast, if it would then that classifies as animal.

[Dixon Sider]

I found this

An animal is a living, nonhuman creature, usually a vertebrate with no magical abilities and no innate capacity for language or culture. Animals usually have additional information on how they can serve as companions.

Which excludes the frogs because they can cast magic.

[Dixon Sider]

Never mind, their tooltip in game says their ranged attack comes from their stomach acid, so its not magic. I dont see why they would be excluded from animals anywhere

[valky]

Aaaah, the common terminology :P
Doesn't have to be always magic:
"Magical beasts usually have supernatural or extraordinary abilities"
edit: can have languages, int scores higher than 2 and so forth

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by valky:

Aaaah, the common terminology :P
Doesn't have to be always magic:
"Magical beasts usually have supernatural or extraordinary abilities"
edit: can have languages, int scores higher than 2 and so forth

Ok so beasts are not animals then? Now im wondering what enemies are animals? i think i remember this spell not working on vermin either. Il have to check that out

[valky]

Usually never take that spell, cause *yeah* bard and such :P Cacophonous or icy prison by my sorc.

It was easier back then...we had bears, wolfs, lions .. like true animals :>

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by valky:

Usually never take that spell, cause *yeah* bard and such :P Cacophonous or icy prison by my sorc.

It was easier back then...we had bears, wolfs, lions .. like true animals :>

im a druid, and im trying to get khaliki (idk the spelling) so im trying to be as efficient as possible lol. I cant do my usual stand behind a tank and poke them with long sticks. It would be nice if there was a table somewhere that put all the enemies in their ranking system.

Theres monster, animal, undead, and human. (that I know of at least). Im guessing everything in the game falls into one (and only one) of these 4 categories? Beasts falling in the monster category

[valky]

Most tables have several subtables and stuff - I know exactly what you are looking for, but with all those added monster/sub types/races/subraces/blergh you won't hardly find an easy overview.

For me it's the same with Undead Cyclops (Vordekai) .. their type is 'Undead' but they also have the 'Giant' subtype .. so both templates should apply under some conditions (weapon bonus against xyz / Ranger fav enemy)

But that's getting a bit tricky at this stage and I have to admit: Am clueless ^^

edit: "monster" should cover everything, there might be some very specific exception but usually they give special enemies just immunity to those effects instead.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by valky:

Most tables have several subtables and stuff - I know exactly what you are looking for, but with all those added monster/sub types/races/subraces/blergh you won't hardly find an easy overview.

For me it's the same with Undead Cyclops (Vordekai) .. their type is 'Undead' but they also have the 'Giant' subtype .. so both templates should apply under some conditions (weapon bonus against xyz / Ranger fav enemy)

But that's getting a bit tricky at this stage and I have to admit: Am clueless ^^

edit: "monster" should cover everything, there might be some very specific exception but usually they give special enemies just immunity to those effects instead.

Ok so your saying animal is a subcategory of monster?

[Dixon Sider]

And on a side note, im kinda glad beasts are not animals. I would have been messing with hold/dominate animal for like an hour, when my next attempt (stone call) is just clearing everything

[valky]

In PnP terms we are both monsters, cause human, which is also a monster ^^

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/tools/monster-filter

Hold monster can affect a mere little snail, as well as Lucifer or a Dragon in that matter - but the dragon has an additional immunity template as well, that makes him/her (?) immune to paralysis.
And that nullifies 'hold monster' but neither does his race/type/subtype...

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by valky:

In PnP terms we are both monsters, cause human, which is also a monster ^^

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/tools/monster-filter

Hold monster can affect a mere little snail, as well as Lucifer or a Dragon in that matter - but the dragon has an additional immunity template as well, that makes him/her (?) immune to paralysis.
And that nullifies 'hold monster' but neither does his race/type/subtype...

ok so monster = creature?

[valky]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

ok so monster = creature?

That would have shortened my answer. yes!

edit: oh ♥♥♥♥ - This spell functions like hold person, except that it affects any living creature that fails its Will save.

So, Undead is just another special exception, for that 'Hold Undead' is good for...sheeesh

See and that is there the confusion starts, I have to check up as well for the rules every now and then (but's fun and I kinda like it to get a grip on the P:K universe)