Sartayne over Nazrielle?

[Rescue Toaster]

Has anyone actually chosen him over her?

Minor artisan related spoilers below



I haven't seen a list of gear Sartayne can make, but from what he says during the quest, he says that he will replace her as an artisan; he even goes as far as to brag that he's better than her. Every search result I've found mentions to avoid choosing him because he was bugged in previous versions, and I've only seen one response saying that he doesn't provide anything and simply cancels out the Nazrielle quest without any benefit (which seems to contradict the entire point of choosing him?)

So, does anyone have any concrete information about this? Does Sartayne actually become an artisan who provides you items? Or does it just end the quest without any reward, making it one of the worst choices in the game?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1827540533

Any help would be appreciated, and I'll try to discover this on my own if no one gets back to me.

Edit: The first time he visited me in the throne room he gifted me with Steady Hand - it appears that he may share the same item table as Nazrielle

[rdpeyton]

Thanks for following up with this. I've been curious about it too. As I understand it, the answer is that Sartayne takes over for Nazrielle - but I assume he won't produce her masterpiece?

[Gregorovitch]

I've been dealing with these artisan questions recently too. Personally I think it makes sense to Google the answers to these questions because:

1. The game is totally non-transparent over what masterwork items you get from the artisans, there is no way of inferring it

2. There is such a wide variety of weapons in the game that, without any sort of repsec facility, selecting your preferred weapons for characters is a lottery in which you are odds on to lose.

3. The game does not provide a plentiful supply of good examples of each kind of weapon throughout the game. Some, yes. Others not so much.

On one level you have a difficult (and therefore "good") choice to make: so do I specialise in a weapon early so that I get crucial To Hit and damage bonuses when it really matters, early game, or do I delay this choice until I get a suitable end game weapon I'm happy with. On a another level this choice is bloody annoying.

In general the former choice is objectively better since high level characters are so powerful a few extra bonuses don't matter much in the grand scheme of things, but subjectively there is nothing more annoying than finding a +5 uber-weapon and realising that it's barely better in practice than the dross +2 blade you've been using for the past 100 hours because of your specialisations.

So the bottom line is you have absolutely no way to know whether you should choose Sartayne over Nazrielle and nor does anybody else 'cos they don't know what characters you use and how exactly you have built them so far. It's totally situational and subject to preference and playstyle.

Which I would argue is no choice at all, it's just a blind guess, a coin flip, therefore my view is just ask Google in this instance.

[Mork]

I think you get the same list as Nazrielle minus masterpiece. If you have no long sword user and already have the 'masterpiece' achievement, then why not..

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

I've been dealing with these artisan questions recently too. Personally I think it makes sense to Google the answers to these questions because:

1. The game is totally non-transparent over what masterwork items you get from the artisans, there is no way of inferring it

2. There is such a wide variety of weapons in the game that, without any sort of repsec facility, selecting your preferred weapons for characters is a lottery in which you are odds on to lose.

3. The game does not provide a plentiful supply of good examples of each kind of weapon throughout the game. Some, yes. Others not so much.

On one level you have a difficult (and therefore "good") choice to make: so do I specialise in a weapon early so that I get crucial To Hit and damage bonuses when it really matters, early game, or do I delay this choice until I get a suitable end game weapon I'm happy with. On a another level this choice is bloody annoying.

In general the former choice is objectively better since high level characters are so powerful a few extra bonuses don't matter much in the grand scheme of things, but subjectively there is nothing more annoying than finding a +5 uber-weapon and realising that it's barely better in practice than the dross +2 blade you've been using for the past 100 hours because of your specialisations.

So the bottom line is you have absolutely no way to know whether you should choose Sartayne over Nazrielle and nor does anybody else 'cos they don't know what characters you use and how exactly you have built them so far. It's totally situational and subject to preference and playstyle.

Which I would argue is no choice at all, it's just a blind guess, a coin flip, therefore my view is just ask Google in this instance.

I’ve found the best policy is not to specialize at all with characters who have martial proficiency. There are so many different weapons which work well on different situations you want to keep your options open.

For non-martial characters there will be a certain sort of weapon that fits best what you’re trying to do, such as an agile weapon for Linzi, or a reach weapon for Tristian, and there you can choose to specialize, so I’ll take Fauchard proficiency for Tristan or weapon focus rapier for Linzi if I want Dazzling Display.

In general, specialization in a certain weapon doesn’t buy you that much anyway (focus is only+1 to hit) other that improved crit in certain narrow cases (several great weapons are keen already).

You’re missing some interesting strategic decision making by looking first for flaws in the UI.

[dwarner]

As for Naz, they’re both gated behind an evil choice (as is Varrask). We may be missing an interesting/rewarding quest line by our blinkered focus on min-maxing.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by dwarner:

I’ve found the best policy is not to specialize at all with characters who have martial proficiency. There are so many different weapons which work well on different situations you want to keep your options open.

I'm sure that's a very wise observation, but IIRC from another comment you made, you've played 1400 hours of this game. I'm not sure someone in the middle of their first game, me for instance, could reasonably be expected to arrive at that conclusion.

Additionally, the fact that you specialise up in one weapon does not prevent you from using others without bonuses when required, just that you get more oomph from your preferred one you use most of the time.

So I would guess what you are really saying is that on balance the opportunity cost of the feats required for specialising is too high and that because you can get almost as much mileage out of using different weapons against specific monsters without specialisation bonuses grabbing three or four additional feats you would otherwise have to forgo holds more value.

Originally posted by dwarner:

As for Naz, they’re both gated behind an evil choice (as is Varrask). We may be missing an interesting/rewarding quest line by our blinkered focus on min-maxing.

Maybe, but understandably folk want decent weapons for their chars and with the plethora of weapon types and the resultant dearth of instances it's incredibly difficult to find one and very understandable why folk want to open as many avenues to the right weapons for their chars as possible. Far more so than in any other cRPG I can think of on the spot.

[Mork]

Weapon specialization is indeed quite dangerous for beginner. They might choose longsword or greatsword thinking they are good choice and be stuck with a +1 frost greatsword until end game. (they are good choice but you need to rely on artisan to unlock their true potential)

The safer pick is actually greataxe, bastard sword, heavy mace, kukri, dagger, longbow, crossbow and ?. I think those are the best for new players, since you will always get a upgrade at a steady pace and you don't need to rely on a artisan.

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by Mork:

Weapon specialization is indeed quite dangerous for beginner. They might choose longsword or greatsword thinking they are good choice and be stuck with a +1 frost greatsword until end game. (they are good choice but you need to rely on artisan to unlock their true potential)

The safer pick is actually greataxe, bastard sword, heavy mace, kukri, dagger, longbow, crossbow and ?. I think those are the best for new players, since you will always get a upgrade at a steady pace and you don't need to rely on a artisan.

There a couple of good long swords, but that's much later in the game. I found a nice long sword for my Jaethal in chapter 3. Anyways, yes, weapon spec is not good for new players.

[Lord Yanaek]

Originally posted by dwarner:

As for Naz, they’re both gated behind an evil choice (as is Varrask). We may be missing an interesting/rewarding quest line by our blinkered focus on min-maxing.

I personally think the alignment effect of those answers is totally stupid.

So on one side i have Naz, a ruthless capitalist who's ruined a competitor and on the other side Sartayne who's been releasing cursed items powerful enough to destroy the lives or at least sanity of countless of my subjects

Any sane good and or loyal person would throw Sartayne into jail! My good characters always keep Naz, try to arrest Sartayne and don't even feel bad about killing him after he demonstrates once again his true face by trying to murder you. Sure Naz is a nasty person but i have nothing against her, she's just doing her job and not causing any issues. Apparently it's fine for good characters to deal with Lamashtu's priests but it's not fine to keep a good smith who's done you no wrong!

Varrask is another story. I never killed the Inquisitor with any good character, masterpiece or not!

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Lord Yanaek:

Originally posted by dwarner:

As for Naz, they’re both gated behind an evil choice (as is Varrask). We may be missing an interesting/rewarding quest line by our blinkered focus on min-maxing.

I personally think the alignment effect of those answers is totally stupid.

So on one side i have Naz, a ruthless capitalist who's ruined a competitor and on the other side Sartayne who's been releasing cursed items powerful enough to destroy the lives or at least sanity of countless of my subjects

Any sane good and or loyal person would throw Sartayne into jail! My good characters always keep Naz, try to arrest Sartayne and don't even feel bad about killing him after he demonstrates once again his true face by trying to murder you. Sure Naz is a nasty person but i have nothing against her, she's just doing her job and not causing any issues. Apparently it's fine for good characters to deal with Lamashtu's priests but it's not fine to keep a good smith who's done you no wrong!

Varrask is another story. I never killed the Inquisitor with any good character, masterpiece or not!

She's got Lawful Evil oozing out of every pore on her face, and Sartayne is CE. Lie down with dogs you get fleas. Pretty sure if you choose the non-evil response you eventually get to confront her Master.

Nothing says you get to keep all artisans, even evil ones, with no consequences.

Pretty sure the deal with the Priestess of Lamashtu is that within every cult/gang/communist cell whatever you’ve got people who got into it for whatever reason and have justified it to themselves but whose actions are not themselves evil.

If you investigate that’s what you find with that Priestess. Still pretty Chaotic though since she’s the exception that proves the rule (i. e. law). A Good main character would adhere to the principle of innocent until proven guilty and she’s done nothing wrong nor advocates it.

Naz on the other hand is pretty emphatically nasty.

[Rescue Toaster]

Originally posted by Lord Yanaek:

Originally posted by dwarner:

As for Naz, they’re both gated behind an evil choice (as is Varrask). We may be missing an interesting/rewarding quest line by our blinkered focus on min-maxing.

I personally think the alignment effect of those answers is totally stupid.

So on one side i have Naz, a ruthless capitalist who's ruined a competitor and on the other side Sartayne who's been releasing cursed items powerful enough to destroy the lives or at least sanity of countless of my subjects

Any sane good and or loyal person would throw Sartayne into jail! My good characters always keep Naz, try to arrest Sartayne and don't even feel bad about killing him after he demonstrates once again his true face by trying to murder you. Sure Naz is a nasty person but i have nothing against her, she's just doing her job and not causing any issues. Apparently it's fine for good characters to deal with Lamashtu's priests but it's not fine to keep a good smith who's done you no wrong!

Varrask is another story. I never killed the Inquisitor with any good character, masterpiece or not!

I agree, Naz is the obvious choice for any good or lawful character even if she is a nasty 'shark'; Sartayne is a beast in human skin willing to ruin lives and even attempts to kill you when pressed. I assume most players just do what's best for them in the moment, keeping their alignment fluid like the identity of a graduate of a gender studies degree, but they are missing out by playing like that.

PS. Is your name at all inspired by Lord Yelinak from Everquest?

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Rescue Toaster:

Originally posted by Lord Yanaek:

I personally think the alignment effect of those answers is totally stupid.

So on one side i have Naz, a ruthless capitalist who's ruined a competitor and on the other side Sartayne who's been releasing cursed items powerful enough to destroy the lives or at least sanity of countless of my subjects

Any sane good and or loyal person would throw Sartayne into jail! My good characters always keep Naz, try to arrest Sartayne and don't even feel bad about killing him after he demonstrates once again his true face by trying to murder you. Sure Naz is a nasty person but i have nothing against her, she's just doing her job and not causing any issues. Apparently it's fine for good characters to deal with Lamashtu's priests but it's not fine to keep a good smith who's done you no wrong!

Varrask is another story. I never killed the Inquisitor with any good character, masterpiece or not!

I agree, Naz is the obvious choice for any good or lawful character even if she is a nasty 'shark'; Sartayne is a beast in human skin willing to ruin lives and even attempts to kill you when pressed. I assume most players just do what's best for them in the moment, keeping their alignment fluid like the identity of a graduate of a gender studies degree, but they are missing out by playing like that.

PS. Is your name at all inspired by Lord Yelinak from Everquest?

Naz is Lawful (that's all the talk about deals and contracts) but she's not Good, not close.

[Rescue Toaster]

Originally posted by dwarner:

Naz is Lawful (that's all the talk about deals and contracts) but she's not Good, not close.

I never implied that Nazrielle herself was good, it's fairly apparent that she isn't good at all! I simply suggested that lawful and good players should choose her between the two

[Triple G]

I couldn´t decide which weapon spezialization to choose either.
Found that list not unhelpful - even if locations/chapters are missing - and i missed the +5 dagger.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSUpOZwVpOeNUjcUEWSPrXKyx-j6A4o1BHQD2c5THLenTet7141EOlFxbFH65C2TjBOXmXd7IcbXsk1/pubhtml#

For Artisans this:
https://www.neoseeker.com/pathfinder-kingmaker/loot/Artisan_Items_Crafter_Masterworks#Nazrielle_.28Kamelands.29

But on topic: I chose Naz in my playthrough. And failed Varask. I didn´t really care about those items - i guess i had multiple copies of some uniques by the time. Sold them. The potion was nice - and the armor. Other than that: i don´t know if i even got the masterpiece items.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Rescue Toaster:

Originally posted by dwarner:

Naz is Lawful (that's all the talk about deals and contracts) but she's not Good, not close.

I never implied that Nazrielle herself was good, it's fairly apparent that she isn't good at all! I simply suggested that lawful and good players should choose her between the two

Yes, but people were complaining about the dialogue choices in Sartayne’s house. The reason your only choices are Evil if you want to keep either one is because they’re both Evil. If you choose the non-Evil dialogue you lose them both.

Lawful yes - she’s obsessed with the Law, Good no. Your contract with her is a contract with her master, as she’ll tell you if you break it.