Rogue levels for many or even each character?

[Kristian_77]

I am quite new in the game. Tried several different characters and I am currently switching between them. Chaotic Good Sorcerer, Lawful Good Wizard, Chaotic Evil Knife Master and Chaotic Evil Thug. All are still in the beginning of the game, level 2 - 3 characters. I noticed that sneak attacks seems to be quite effective. Even Octavia can do quite nice sneak attack damage by crossbow. I was wondering if it is wise to take few rogue levels for several characters just because of sneak attack?

[Orange]

No...

Casters? They're too dependant on caster level, the only time that makes sense for them is if they're going the Arcane Trickster prestige classes (Like Octavia is meant to be).
And most of them have access to sense vitals so no need for Rogue levels

Martials? They've a full BAB in their favor, the rogue dip kills it for a +0 BAB and a 1d6 every 2 levels which is not much at higher levels

Sneak Attack is only good when you keep building on it, otherwise you sacrificied your classe power for a measly d6... i'd rather take the caster level or +1 to hit. Anyone can tell you hitting more often > bigger damage numbers.

Also Octavia's strenght is in using sneak attack with cantrips because it targets touch AC or triggering it with ranged touch spells and eventually aoe spells

[Schanez]

You can get Precise Strike feat which adds 1d6 to your damage when two friendlies with that feat attack the same target.

Overall unless you want more than just Sneak Dice, sometimes it is a good idea. I usually dip 4 levels into Rogue on my tank characters to get Uncanny Dodge. On Monks to get Weapon Finesse and Finesse Training. But overall it is a bad idea. Especially on Casters like Wizards, Clerics and Druids. They lose too much in terms of spell progression for too little gain.

[Orange]

Originally posted by Schanez:

Overall unless you want more than just Sneak Dice, sometimes it is a good idea. I usually dip 4 levels into Rogue on my tank characters to get Uncanny Dodge.

Wouldn't it be less cost-intensive to go for 2 levels of barbarian or archeologist bard? Or even 3 levels Stalwart Defender, rather than spending 4/20 levels on Rogue?

[Schanez]

Originally posted by Orange:

Originally posted by Schanez:

Overall unless you want more than just Sneak Dice, sometimes it is a good idea. I usually dip 4 levels into Rogue on my tank characters to get Uncanny Dodge.

Wouldn't it be less cost-intensive to go for 2 levels of barbarian or archeologist bard? Or even 3 levels Stalwart Defender, rather than spending 4 levels on Rogue?

As a Monk, you have to be Lawful. Barbarian needs to be non-Lawful.
For an Alchemist, a better dip is actually two levels of Archaeologist Bard.
Stalwart Defender requires 3 Feats to let you in, out of which two are not on my priority list.

A Monk tank can get a free Weapon Finesse and Finesse Training Unarmed Strike as well as Debilitating Injury which boosts their AC by 4 against the target they are booping. If you go Thug, you can also use Brutal Beating for another 2 AC due to Sickened.

Sword Saint would benefit most from Archaeologist dip.

It mostly depends what you want to do with the character.

[jonnin]

rogue isnt the only class that has this ability...

[Grifta]

Pure phyiscal damage will fail you at some point if it's all you rely on, and some things are immune to sneak attack.

The classic, or variations on the classic is still the best. Fighter, Rogue, Cleric, Wizard +2 whatever. My dungeon running party (DLC3) is:
Tank - Fighter (Tower Shield Specialist) focused on trip, or Monk (with Crane Style, etc) usually trip as well.
Striker - Rogue (Thug) with a reach weapon or Alchemist (Vivisectionist)
Healing and buffing - Cleric (Ecclesitheurge) healing and knowledge domain
Nut-cracker - Sorcerer (Sage) evocation specialist

Then at level 10, just more, consistent DPS:
Kineticist - Fire then earth
Ranger (Stormwalker)


In the main game this translated to Valarie, Amiri, Baron (Rogue), Octavia, Tristian, Linzi (or replace Linzi with a quest specific person)

[Schanez]

Right, to straighten out some information.

The way classes progress in this game is as follows.
Martial classes are overall good throughout the levels, having quite stable increase in power through Feats and additional class abilities.
Caster classes are starting somewhat on the weaker side, but as they gain levels their power will quickly overtake martial classes and will eventually overshadow them completely.
Think of it this way: martial classes are a straight line going on a graph from 0 to 20; on the same graph a caster class will by a parabola.

With that said, you want to keep your Full Caster characters mostly within their class, without spreading your levels around. By Full Casters I mean Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, Druids, Bards and Alchemists. I think those are all there are in this game.

Martial classes like Barbarian, Fighter, Slayer are more open to multiclassing, as their power increase is linear, so if you swap from Slayer into Fighter, you will not lose much in terms of power progression.

There are exceptions of this rule as well as Advanced Classes. But that is another topic entirely. Dipping into a level of Rogue just to get Sneak Attack on a Sorcerer or a Wizard will be terrible in the long run. Yes you will deal slightly more damage on the early levels, but later you will just lose additional spell casts per day, which will hurt. Not to mention you will gain new spell levels later than normal.

[Kristian_77]

Thank you all. I kinda suspected that even though it seems like a good idea at early levels it will be bad later on.