Beneath the Stolen Lands / Tenebrous Depths - warning/spoiler/complaint

[nepomucq]

OK, so I have been playing the game for a few days now. About 100 hours in. I have seen a lot of complaints and felt that a lot of it was unfounded. I'm having fun, enjoying myself, the game is worth every dollar spent. Until now.

SPOILERS!!
I started playing Tenebrous Depths in the main campaign. It's fun. Defeated the first boss (Weary Traveler). Came back after some time, defeated the second boss (Fallen Priestess). Found her robe. It suggests that the dragon guardian of the dungeon is actually possessed. OK, I thought, interesting. I'll check online if it is true. Yes, it is, but you have to find an artifact on each boss. No artifact on the first boss for me. Why? Bug? Nope, bad game design. Turns out you have to find 4 lore artifacts for each boss (or maybe find them and read their story - not sure) before you fight the bosses and only then will they drop the special artifact. What is so bad about it, you might ask? Well, the game doesn't even suggest that there is something like that in place, so you don't know that the lore artifacts are that important. You do the dungeon in parts, so even if you find out that there is such a mechanism, you probably won't be able/willing to redo it after hours of game. Finally, at least in case of the first boss, depending on which corridor you take, you can fight him before you find the fourth artifact and not knowing that you should have the artifacts first you are screwed.

This is the situation for me. I have all the lore artifacts for the first boss but the last one I picked up after the fight. I didn't know I was missing something so I just continued playing. Several hours later I came back to he dungeon, defeated the second boss and accidentally found out that there is such a mechanism. Now I can either replay a large chunk of the game through no fault of my own or use some mod to help me.

I understand that there are some extra rewards for observant players but in this case the game gives you no clues or warning and you can miss a nice subplot just because you turned left instead of going straight first. Not cool.

[Dracon]

My experience from the main story:
I also only found 15 or so of them due to failed perception checks. Right now, I'm finally done with the story and killed the spawn, completing the quest, while some of the artifacts heavily suggest that you also need to kill the dragon.
Yet, I got no way of doing so, as I am missing some artifacts and didn't pass the check. I.e I have to wait till the next level so I can re-roll them.

However, I got no idea if you can still find out the truth (i.e get the achievement) after you've killed the spawn and completed the quest.

We are also not talking about low-level checks there, but some which are rather high for the level your party is on the floors in question when the main story unlocks them.

[Shadenuat]

This is why for completionist playthrough you carry Jaethal and others in party and take skill focus (Perception).

[Dracon]

Originally posted by Shadenuat:

This is why for completionist playthrough you carry Jaethal and others in party and take skill focus (Perception).

I doubt Jeathal could have had more perception than the merc I specifically skilled for perception and trickery.
The checks are just really high down there, and some of the check hit boxes are also ill placed.

[nepomucq]

Originally posted by Dracon:

My experience from the main story:
Yet, I got no way of doing so, as I am missing some artifacts and didn't pass the check. I.e I have to wait till the next level so I can re-roll them.

However, I got no idea if you can still find out the truth (i.e get the achievement) after you've killed the spawn and completed the quest.

We are also not talking about low-level checks there, but some which are rather high for the level your party is on the floors in question when the main story unlocks them.

Sorry to say that, but now there is nothing you can do. You need to find 4 lore artifacts concerning each boss before the fight with the given boss. For example, for the Weary Traveler you have to find Scribble of the Weary Traveler, Mug of the Weary Traveler, Diary of the Weary Traveler and Interview with the Weary Traveler. You neeed to have all four found/in your inventory/description read (not clear for me, but I think it's enough if you find them) BEFORE you fight the Weary Traveler. Then, ONLY if you have the artifacts, after you defeat him, he drops Shield of the Weary Traveler. This artifact gives you info on the dragon. It is like that for all four bosses. Find four artifacts, the boss drops the fifth and you can confront the dragon. If you don't do it before each fight there is no way to do it later.

For me the the Perception checks weren't an issue. But bad game design as I had no indication that it is important to find these artifacts, that it is SUPER important to find them before the boss fights and bad level design which allowed me to fight the boss before I even went to the part of the level where the artifact was.

[[CoH] Joker]

My first play through I'd only found two of those artifacts before fighting the Weary Traveller. I didn't know about any hidden mechanic until reading this thread.

I do know that the DC for some perception checks/Hidden doors is actually beyond anything your characters can achieve. I used a mod to give my rogue 45 ranks in Perception, and he still can't find some hidden items on level 2 of the dungeon. So it's really luck to achieve all this.

And yes, bad design.

[Dracon]

Originally posted by nepomucq:

Originally posted by Dracon:

My experience from the main story:
Yet, I got no way of doing so, as I am missing some artifacts and didn't pass the check. I.e I have to wait till the next level so I can re-roll them.

However, I got no idea if you can still find out the truth (i.e get the achievement) after you've killed the spawn and completed the quest.

We are also not talking about low-level checks there, but some which are rather high for the level your party is on the floors in question when the main story unlocks them.

Sorry to say that, but now there is nothing you can do. You need to find 4 lore artifacts concerning each boss before the fight with the given boss. For example, for the Weary Traveler you have to find Scribble of the Weary Traveler, Mug of the Weary Traveler, Diary of the Weary Traveler and Interview with the Weary Traveler. You neeed to have all four found/in your inventory/description read (not clear for me, but I think it's enough if you find them) BEFORE you fight the Weary Traveler. Then, ONLY if you have the artifacts, after you defeat him, he drops Shield of the Weary Traveler. This artifact gives you info on the dragon. It is like that for all four bosses. Find four artifacts, the boss drops the fifth and you can confront the dragon. If you don't do it before each fight there is no way to do it later.

For me the the Perception checks weren't an issue. But bad game design as I had no indication that it is important to find these artifacts, that it is SUPER important to find them before the boss fights and bad level design which allowed me to fight the boss before I even went to the part of the level where the artifact was.

That's actually poorly designed then. Especially in the main campaign where mobs don't respawn and 5 floors are far from enough to give you a level up.

[[CoH] Joker]

This playthrough, I'm on level 10. I can't find the "boss" of the level, so I guarantee I'm missing some hidden room.
All I can find is a "Crack in space, too small for you to fit through. It reeks of death, madness, and evil"

Anyone have a workaround? Or maybe a Reveal All spell that clears the map?

[Altonu]

I just started the depths in the campaign, and I'm on floor 2 (with lvl 8 and 9 characters), and I think there is an area with a secret door I can't find (I can see walls on the other side).

In my current run, I am leveling Jaethal as a cleric instead of an inquisitor, so she does'nt have the bonus perception from 1/2 inquisitor level, but she is still my highest perception character at 24 (with those +5 perception goggles you can buy in your main town).

So, has anyone figured out how much perception is needed to spot these somewhat essential (to find the artifacts) secret doors, or are the perception checks randomized or scaled to your level when you enter? (for that matter, how much of the content in campaign for this dungoen is random vs constant (I've heard the loot is randomized, and I would not be surprised if some of the creatures are randomized since I had an odd mix of enemies on floor 1 ranging from lvl 2 to 7+ or so (a few I failed my identify checks on))

Also, so far, I've been able to go back and re-visit floor 1, but I've seen in other threads peopel saying you can't go back once you go down a floor. Is this something that is different in campaign vs stand alone, or will I reach a point where I cant re-visit previous floors int eh campaign?

[[CoH] Joker]

Campaign you can go back, it seems.
Endless Dungeon, you can't.

I assume it has to do with the resources needed to hold 50 small floors in memory as opposed to potentially hundreds across a few play throughs.

[nepomucq]

I don't really remember, but in the campaign 24 should be enough for the first 4 floors.

When it comes to important artifacts there is always one per floor. First 4 are about Weary Traveler so the artifacts have to be about him. Then, on the fourth floor, you get the fourth artifact and on the same floor you can also fight the Traveler. The important part is not to fight him if you don't have all four artifacts because you won't get the Shield of the Weary Traveler artifact from his corpse. Rinse and repeat for the other 3 bosses.

One more thing, on the first 8 floors there are also artifacts which are not connected with the bosses but you can collect four or five of them and sell them to the Storyteller. Don't remember the names but they are easy to tell apart from the boss lore artifacts.

[Altonu]

Thanks, as long as I know I can go back, and I know not to fight any bosses until I have 4 artefacts for each, then I think I can avoid screwing myself over.

[Drask]

I've been this in rogue-like mode and it's even tougher. You don't seem to get any drops after you defeat your first boss and then you have to restart. I'm on # 11 now, and I still haven't gotten all of the artefacts. I think that I'm just needing the captive/captor items. Crappy thing is, that I've gotten the weary traveller the last three times. And, since I had all of his items already; I haven't gotten any drops. The items carry over, from playthrough to playthrough. But, I'm not sure if they carry over into the main campaign.

[Elsenrail]

I have the same problems. This level of bad game design is shocking. Who from the devs came up with this idea? I have 37 perception and still missing sth in the early dungeon levels? I am after 8 level and cant'f find any quest items at all. WTF?

[Myst]

So that explains why I can't find the last weary traveler fragment. Wish I knew about that before hand.

[dwarner]

You figure it out for your next playthrough. You’re not supposed to get everything perfect your first time through. That would be poor game design.

Improving each time through is a gratifying and enjoyable experience.