MC wizard worth while now?

[Kasa]

So now that we are on the EE of this game, did the "fix" the issue with wizards and spell scrolls? I know originally you could find an amount of scrolls through out the game but it's was just objectively better to player as a sorcerer instead.

Is this still the case or can you know find enough DIFFERENT scrolls to make a wizard worth it?

*Edit Forgot to add wizard to title got more coffee, fixed title.

[Dixon Sider]

I have been getting scrolls very regularly. I also think I missed a lot because I havent been looking anything up but there are certainly a lot of scrolls. You just gotta be vigilant when you get them to check if your sorcerer can read them.

On a side note, if you want to be a wizard, you can go arcane bomber and 2 points in grenader. This not only lets your bombs not hurt your allies, but you get a non-enhancement buff +4 to any mental stat if you chose that perk. right now its also a little broken because acerbic rings add 2d6 to your bombs instead of 1d6 and you can have 2 stack so my 2 rings total add 4d6 to my bombs LOL. it ignores AC and goes dierctly after reflex. Its very OP right now

I also reported this so it might be fixed soon tho

[Shadenuat]

There's now merchant which sells all scrolls in the game, stock depends on your kingdom Arcane stat.

Not that you couldn't get every spell which is actually worth its name before either or wanted all spells at all, could still dominate the game with Wizard since day 1.

[Kasa]

One of the bigger issues I found with wizards was that this games encounter ratio didn't have the Vancian system in mind. Originally DnD you would have 1 or 2 fights / a rest as opposed to the 12+ in PF:KM.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by Kasa:

One of the bigger issues I found with wizards was that this games encounter ratio didn't have the Vancian system in mind. Originally DnD you would have 1 or 2 fights / a rest as opposed to the 12+ in PF:KM.

Im realy only able to get maybe 4 at max. With the amount of buffs required I dont see how you can get 12 unless your in a low level area for your current level, or playing on an easier difficulty

[Shadenuat]

You're supposed to deal with trash with fighters, and use vancian casters in hard fights. It's very standard IE games balance.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Originally posted by Shadenuat:

You're supposed to deal with trash with fighters, and use vancian casters in hard fights. It's very standard IE games balance.

EXACTLY! :)

my fave main is a wizard, always has been through 1st ed AD&D and up and many computer games, lol

my character uses 2 mage Armour spells on the group's pets, +4 AC for hours is an enormous boost and way WAY better than most other spells of that level for value for effect
this is an example of the way to really think about playing a wizard :)

if you just want to blow things up, play a sorceror
if you want to have a variety of abilities that can tip *hard* fights or unusual situations in the party's favour, play a wizard

other examples:
the "Pit" spells are absolutely brilliant ways to screw up tough enemies and block narrow passages. They ignore spell resistance

Grease and glitterdust like most conjurations also ignore spell resistance
Glitterdust's blinding effect can screw up almost any melee or ranged creatures damage out put

Stoneskin on a main melee fighters, plus blur or displacement, can greatly improve their chances of surviving extreme fights

using "reach" abilities, by metamagic, a rod or whatever, or sneaking especially with vanish or Invisibility to get close if you must (it is wise to invest in arcane casters stealth skill, seriously it is!) you can unleash Confusion spells or similar ot breka up a mob of enemies ability to react well

Stinking Cloud and Communal resist poison is an amazing combo (especially against fey!)
fight int he cloud and your paladins etc can chop up enemies with less resistance form gassed enemies

clever use of positioning and Cloudkill can flush enemies out of rooms
or again, with Communal poison resistance, and fighting in a corner, you can gas enemies down around you


etc etc
so many ways ot use wizards, but you do NOT have to use spells every fight :)

[Kasa]

As some one who loves playing NON-BLASTER wizards, I ask then whats the point of magic? An extra Fighter would make those "hard" fights just as easy as anything a magic user could do through sheer action economy. If your "magic user" is spending 90% of fights sitting in a corner firing a crappy crossbow then why are you even using them? for that 10% of fights that are slightly harder, really?

In the actual PnP magic could just do more then kill ♥♥♥♥, I actually hate using magic to "kill" it's the most boring way to use magic imo, but eh what can you do ya?

I've been playing D&D for about a decade now and my favorite class is wizard, I'm also in the camp of using control spells instead of damage spells.

But every incarnation of this game has been pushing more towards how to effectively kill stuff. It's boring. But that's a discussion for another thread in another forum at another date. For now I'm just happy that your not reward starved for new magic to add to your spellbook.

[Shadenuat]

You're always free to roll 6 Fighters and see how far can you get without magic.

I'm also in the camp of using control spells instead of damage spells

Well great. They're the most powerful spells in the game.

[Kasa]

Originally posted by Shadenuat:

You're always free to roll 6 Fighters and see how far can you get without magic.

I'm also in the camp of using control spells instead of damage spells

Well great. They're the most powerful spells in the game.

I might, I have a chip on my shoulder about divine casters (for RP reasons) so I don't really want to roll clerics, but with that said as I mentioned before it's enough to know that the scroll availability is better then it was a year ago.

Ps: @Shadenuat I'd also pick your first post as an answer to this thread as well but since I can only pick one I chose first come first serve. Just figured I'd acknowledge your points as well.

[Dixon Sider]

You can make an incredible CC wizard. I have 31 DC with stinking cloud and grease right now, and im only level 14. Its very useful

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Originally posted by Kasa:

Then whats the point of magic? An extra Fighter would make those "hard" fights just as easy as anything a magic user could do through sheer action economy.

In the actual PnP magic could just do more then kill ♥♥♥♥, I actually hate using magic to "kill" it's the most boring way to use magic imo, but eh what can you do ya?

can a fighter cast an extended Resist energy spell that makes your melee folk able to shrug off all those damned annoying acid or whatever attacks certain enemies use that add up to a LOT of damage over the duration the resist spell will be in effect?

People also tend ot overlook some of the better ways to build their fighters
if you have decent dexterity, Combat Reflexes is extremely useful feat boosting damage out put quite a bit, giving lots of free attacks of opportunity as enemies move around
Now, that goes even more so when you use an Enlarge or Legendary Proportions spell on the melee character, or a Cats Grace buff, especially on a 2 handed specialist or a monk....Cuisinart time! :p

Wizards are like combat Engineers, really bloody useful to have around especially when things go FUBAR ;)

you'll also find some items, or AREAS can only be used or entered with the help of certain classes

[Kasa]

Originally posted by dixon sider:

You can make an incredible CC wizard. I have 31 DC with stinking cloud and grease right now, and im only level 14

Nice! Lol dammit, now I'm conflicted over my lHuman fighter XD (Don't judge me! Every one loves a basic GENERIC fighter once in a while lol)

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by Kasa:

Originally posted by dixon sider:

You can make an incredible CC wizard. I have 31 DC with stinking cloud and grease right now, and im only level 14

Nice! Lol dammit, now I'm conflicted over my lHuman fighter XD (Don't judge me! Every one loves a basic GENERIC fighter once in a while lol)

They certainly get their job done well. And I really want to have a 20 Fighter in my next playthrough

[Kasa]

Originally posted by SIlverblade-T-E:

Originally posted by Kasa:

SNIP "old nerd being angry at change"

SNIP "Example of how fighters and magic users are awesome"

Ahh but again that's only examples how to be good at KILLING things, if not directly killing things, then by making it easier to kill things. But again, that's just how these games go. At least that's what I try to keep in mind when I start getting crotchety. =]

[SIlverblade-T-E]

Originally posted by Kasa:

Originally posted by Shadenuat:

You're always free to roll 6 Fighters and see how far can you get without magic.


Well great. They're the most powerful spells in the game.

I might, I have a chip on my shoulder about divine casters (for RP reasons) so I don't really want to roll clerics, but with that said as I mentioned before it's enough to know that the scroll availability is better then it was a year ago.

Ps: @Shadenuat I'd also pick your first post as an answer to this thread as well but since I can only pick one I chose first come first serve. Just figured I'd acknowledge your points as well.

Well they did have to make playing clerics more fun
being a "heal bot" was no damn pleasure, sigh
so they added more abilities to their spell lists

I do love the way pathfinder has added many interesting abilities to EVERY class over 3.5 ed D&D


I used to play Everquest a lot back in the day and boy did that teach me how boring a cleric's life could be :(
I ran one when friend's needed it, otherwise hell with that!
I loved playing a magician, even when everyone moaned about how "useless they were"
I proved them wrong but most would never believe it unless they played beside me or they had the wits to study my data
Wasn't a "flashy" class so their incredible damage output and usefulness wasn't so obvious 9and took a lot of work to be good)