Best unarmed build

[superlovi]

Yo, lately i'm toying with some unarmed builds to find out wich is better

Unarmed combat have a lot of potential

- you can stack amulet of agi fist with weapon enanchment ability ( like magus/paladin). So you can get a +10 weapon.
- you can even stack magic fang on this (+15 weapon)
- you should get another +5 more with the LE monk robes ( not tested) -&> +20 weapon?
- with 1 level of monk you get +1 attack at max bab

- styles: crane for max AC, dragon style for more dmg ( badically you can treat unarmed like a two hander- the ♥♥♥ is that you need lots of str to make it worth).
But the best is pummeling : at the moment it works removing all dmg reduction to your attaks after the first one. Pummeling charge is amazing, full attack at the end of a charge, usually istant kill for caters. If you pick a class with lots of feat even pummeling bully is awesome: free trip every full attack.

Your thoughts?

Atm a sword saint 18/ monk 2 or archeologist 16/17 rogue 3/4 are my best bets

[Pink Eye]

Kiriima a écrit :

Pink Eye a écrit :

By the way, how did you manage to circumvent the loss of flurry of blows? Having two additional attacks is too good for unarmed builds. It just doesn't feel as good as a pure monk, maybe the builds get better in the later levels?

You get 1 attack for a monk dip and you get another for spellcombat for Sword Saint.
For natural attack users, you get 1 attack for a monk dip and another because you still has the second claw. The game just tosses every additional atack on your right claw, from flurry to BAB-based and Haste.
You won't get full BAB though, but vivi can use Transformation, so it doesn't matter much. SS cannot use spell combat while transformed.

Ahh, that explains that.

[haplok]

Interesting topic.
Wonder what will the verdict be.

[dwarner]

Flurry only matters if stuff isn’t dying on your first five blows.

[superlovi]

Pink Eye a écrit :

By the way, how did you manage to circumvent the loss of flurry of blows? Having two additional attacks is too good for unarmed builds. It just doesn't feel as good as a pure monk, maybe the builds get better in the later levels?

Sorry last night haven't had time to do anything.

My personal method to test build is having a solo char at max lvl around lvl 30 of the dungeon, i make a "test save", and buy 1 mercenary to test the build. After that i run trough another 5-6 lvls to see how it performs, which fights are more though and why, ecc.

After i have another build idea, i load the "test save", build another char and replay the same lvls. You can even better save before most difficult battle to grasp better the influence of buffs and items with different builds.

For example in my run one of the most difficult fights was vs 3 "improved" gold golem in an "illusion" floor, so they have mirror image, blur and ignore improved invisibility. In such battle warrior-types in heavy armor and high saves performed better than guys with mirror image and sneak attack. And true sight was the real battle-changer buff. This are things that you could easily miss in a "normal" run, thinking is all about good/bad luck.

Back to the topic: i repeat myself, i think that 1 lvl of monk is very good for unarmed build, since is enough to get all the major buffs ( cha/wis to ac, free improved unarmed, 1 free talent, flurry of blows). I also think that pick another 10 lvl just for another flurry attack is not good enough, expecially because if you are some kind of caster you will get speed or divine might ( cleric/inqui) soon enough. Other monk goodies exist, sure, but imho are not game-changers, expecially since pummeling style ( ignore dr, free trip every full attack) is pickable from anyone.


Archeo unarmed builds becomes very strong once you get pummeling charge/improved invis/vital strike.

Scion unarmed builds are good all the time, but usually become better as you progress with your spells, and have a giant leap at lvl 19, when you get heroism greater/geniekind/sense vitals/protection from energy. Before, if you don't have stellar cha, you get a good improvent from the moment you get the heavy armor proficiency.

[superlovi]

dwarner a écrit :

Flurry only matters if stuff isn’t dying on your first five blows.

If you can become larger or better ( legendary proportion) it will matter all the time i can assure you. Also cleaving finish is a good option ( if you have 2 feat to spare).

[superlovi]

Kiriima a écrit :

Pink Eye a écrit :

By the way, how did you manage to circumvent the loss of flurry of blows? Having two additional attacks is too good for unarmed builds. It just doesn't feel as good as a pure monk, maybe the builds get better in the later levels?

You get 1 attack for a monk dip and you get another for spellcombat for Sword Saint.
For natural attack users, you get 1 attack for a monk dip and another because you still has the second claw. The game just tosses every additional atack on your right claw, from flurry to BAB-based and Haste.
You won't get full BAB though, but vivi can use Transformation, so it doesn't matter much. SS cannot use spell combat while transformed.

When i use something that creates claws ( barbarian rage with beast totem, draconic bloodline, ecc) it always SUPPRESSED my unarmed attacks. I mean: i can't use fist anymore, every slot whitout a proper weapon becomes a claw. Claw = no flurry. How fid you manage to get flurry of blows with claws?

On the other hand effects like speed indeed gives you 1 bonus attack normally.

[Pink Eye]

So I just tested the sword saint 18/ monk 2.. Very underwhelming.

Here's the character sheet: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1911488887

Here's the most damage that I did: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1911490496

I don't like it...

[Pink Eye]

I'll try the monk 2/ 18 vivi build.

[Pink Eye]

You can't even pull off 8 attacks per round with sword saint.

[Ichthyic]

how many do you get?

[superlovi]

You should go full dex & int. Forget str. Int is important because it gets added to dmg, so having a headband of mental perfection or other int boosting item is good. Go for pummeling/ pummeling charge instead of crane. You should disable spellstrike so you will kill people faster with charge. Pick power attack/dazzling/courmagon smash/dreadful carnage ( you could go for 9 base str + a +6 belt).
Pick also arcane strike (+4 dmg), remember to activate it, and pick weapon and improved weapon specialization ( another +4 dmg).

Pick amulet of agi fist and auto-enchant your fist only as a +x weapon ( no keen, flaming, speed ecc). You will now wield a +9 weapon congrats. Just don't save after the weapon enchatment, because save game will remove it.

[Queen Yuu The Reclusive]

Just wanted to say that this thread is making me want to build a monk more and more.

Keep up the nice work. +

[Pink Eye]

superlovi a écrit :

You should go full dex & int. Forget str. Int is important because it gets added to dmg, so having a headband of mental perfection or other int boosting item is good. Go for pummeling/ pummeling charge instead of crane. You should disable arcane strike/spellstrike so you will kill people faster with charge. Pick power attack/dazzling/courmagon smash/dreadful carnage ( you could go for 9 base str + a +6 belt).
Pick also arcane strike (+4 dmg), remember to activate it, and pick weapon and improved weapon specialization ( another +4 dmg).

Pick amulet of agi fist and auto-enchant your fist only as a +x weapon ( no keen, flaming, speed ecc). You will now wield a +9 weapon congrats. Just don't save after the weapon enchatment, because save game will remove it.

Alright boss. I'll try that.

[Ichthyic]

Queen Yuu The Succubus a écrit :

Just wanted to say that this thread is making me want to build a monk more and more.

Keep up the nice work. + :sonya_sd:

ditto, interesting thread

[Kiriima]

superlovi a écrit :

When i use something that creates claws ( barbarian rage with beast totem, draconic bloodline, ecc) it always SUPPRESSED my unarmed attacks. I mean: i can't use fist anymore, every slot whitout a proper weapon becomes a claw. Claw = no flurry. How fid you manage to get flurry of blows with claws?

On the other hand effects like speed indeed gives you 1 bonus attack normally.

Maybe. But I use hellofthelot mods. Call of the Wild adds feral training that allows to use any unarmed features with natural attacks, including style strikes etc. Maybe I remembered that build.