Why most AOE spells suck in this game

[Frunobulax]

The AOE spells look so tempting - great damage! Long duration! Negative effects on enemies! Yay! And yet, in practice, they suck for a few reasons.

I admit that some of these reasons have to do with AI being turned on, but, I mean, WTF? Without the AI it would take me ten years to finish this game if I had to micromanage every turn of every combat in the game. I don't have time for that! My game time is precious. And even with AI turned off, they mostly still suck.

1) Aha! A bunch of enemies! I'll cast an AOE spell on them before they see me! Yee ha! (Cast)

2) Casting takes forever. Enemies see you and immediately run all over the place so, instead of all being caught, few if any are because they aren't there any more. Try to anticipate their moves and cast the spell closer? Even if you tell them to hold position, your guys often step on the AOE while they're fighting up close.

3) Meanwhile the AI, which has absolutely no sense of danger and will walk right into known traps and harmful AOEs, runs in to fight and my guys also get hurt by the spell. Again, YES, I KNOW I can turn off the AI, but it still sucks to not be able to use it. Why can't the AI just be smart enough to have the character say "I'm not stepping in that trap/harmful area!"? What moron would do that?

4) Just forget about casting them after combat starts. Enemies are never both close enough together to get more than one or two, and your guys are usually much too close to them and get damaged too. Even if the AI was smart enough to not step into harmful areas, the AOEs would still suck for this reason, and even the ones that aren't terrain effects hurt you just as much as the enemy. That's why only a few are good, the ones that don't hurt your allies like Controlled Fireball and alchemists with selective bombs.

Second, due to the well-discussed major flaw of the game of being unable to cancel spells, you often have to wait forever for them to go away. Obsidian flow lasts AN HOUR, and even a 1 min/level spell lasts forever at higher levels.

1) Aha! I have top kill these really dangerous guys before they close! I can set some traps, lure them into this bottleneck, and they will take all kinds of damage!

2) Cast Blade Barrier and Spike Stones, back into the hallway so they get bunched up, then kill 'em with ranged stuff!

3) Yay! It worked perfectly! I killed them all the characters and took almost no damage! Whee!

4) Oh, now I have to wait at least twelve or fifteen minutes for Blade Barrier (or whatever) to go down, which is boring AF AND I just have to sit there watching all my other buffs gradually disappear. All those wasted spells. Gee, thanks. Wonderful.

To be fair, this same kind of thing happens in many games, not just this one. But seriously, could we at LEAST put in one or two lines of code to the AI that says "Don't step into areas that will hurt you" and add the ability to cancel spells? Would those things really be so hard?

For those of you about to say "LOL LEARN TO PLAY N00B", Don't waste your time, I could NOT care less what you think. I've been playing CRPGS since before many of you were born, and been a designer on some. I know what I'm doing. These are serious design flaws.

Oh, and there is no "TLDR" because people who want them are effing idiots who need to learn to read more than a few sentences at a time.

[pexx421]

Yes. The ai is horrible. And They should have included the ability to dispel your own spells. Fortunately this is available in a mod. For me, if I’ll be throwing fire, lightning, or cloud spells (like you do) I buff my party with protection from elements and slow poison....which are good to have up all the time anyway, and single casts of each generally last whole maps. It is what it is, could have been done better, but doesn’t detract from my massive enjoyment of the game. Because I have the mod that lets me cancel my spells.

[Mork]

Its why i think most of the time, lightning focus is the way to go. Chain lightning and stormbolts are my favorite damaging spells.

[pexx421]

To add. I initiate combat all the time by having three of my peeps drop mad aoes on the foes before engaging. Works like a charm, they rarely peep me before the spells go off, and often that ends the battle right then and there. (Web/oil, cloud, random elemental aoe).

[pexx421]

They’re really mine too, mork. Except for Octavia who is my fire girl, so it’s the selective fireballs and rays all day for her. To add again, though, there are plenty selective rods you can use that make your aoe enemy only.

[Dixon Sider]

Ya, this is why I always advise playing a RTwP game with AI turned completely off. You want full control of everything

[Frunobulax]

I wish all AOE spells were enemy-specific. I mean, it's MAGIC. If fireballs can be controlled to not affect your friends, why not the others?

Thanks for the advice on the spell-cancel mod, what is it called?

[Shadenuat]

How does cancel mod work exactly? Does it just provide you unlimited 99 DC dispel or something?

[Pink Eye]

From this : " I've been playing CRPGS since before many of you were born, and been a designer on some. I know what I'm doing. These are serious design flaws."

To this: "I wish all AOE spells were enemy-specific. I mean, it's MAGIC. If fireballs can be controlled to not affect your friends, why not the others? "

I feel trolled, wtf.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by Pink Eye:

From this : " I've been playing CRPGS since before many of you were born, and been a designer on some. I know what I'm doing. These are serious design flaws."

To this: "I wish all AOE spells were enemy-specific. I mean, it's MAGIC. If fireballs can be controlled to not affect your friends, why not the others? "

I feel trolled, wtf.

I have been a computer programmer since 1942, and I have been playing CRPGs since Call of Duty added perks

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

Originally posted by Pink Eye:

From this : " I've been playing CRPGS since before many of you were born, and been a designer on some. I know what I'm doing. These are serious design flaws."

To this: "I wish all AOE spells were enemy-specific. I mean, it's MAGIC. If fireballs can be controlled to not affect your friends, why not the others? "

I feel trolled, wtf.

I have been a computer programmer since 1942, and I have been playing CRPGs since Call of Duty added perks

I just don't know who to trust!

[jonnin]

the last time I felt fireball was doing its job was vs mace the cleric in pool of radiance.

[Frunobulax]

Originally posted by Pink Eye:

From this : " I've been playing CRPGS since before many of you were born, and been a designer on some. I know what I'm doing. These are serious design flaws."

To this: "I wish all AOE spells were enemy-specific. I mean, it's MAGIC. If fireballs can be controlled to not affect your friends, why not the others? "

I feel trolled, wtf.

I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps I wasn't clear that I was talking about the game itself in the first part and the backstory/lore/explanation in the second.

[nshawmc]

hi. hopefully my perspective can help you.

1. i think that the friendly fire is excellent and adds to game play micro managing your characters is like 90% of the game. the addon to adjust zoom further and closer and the one that lets you turn your camera is EXCELLENT for controlling your position of characters around aoe spells and around enemies. try those out.

2. there is another mod that lets you remove your AOE effects even during combat as an action. not sure which one.IMO: just get all the mods they are all excellent. i have like 95% of them available from the mod nexus hub and it greatly improves gameplay.

3. some spells take longer to cast than others. for example grease goes down right away where as sleep takes time to cast. but you can reposition the aoe area at anytime during the cast without delaying the cast so... not sure how you can complain about that. yeah the enemies move... that is what they do. it's your job to control your characters. there are only like 6 maybe 1-2 pets so not that biggy.

[nshawmc]

I just want to add that a huge part of strategy in the game is how you position your aoe spells with the world, and with the expected actions of enemies then taunt the enemies with your minions to move them where you want. i mean this is like a HUGE part of the game.
it is what makes the game- the game.

maybe if you are like on easy mode you dont even notice but if you play hard and unfair it's all about positioning and aoe placement of grease web sleep entangle etc.

[Mauman]

Turn Based Mod is your friend.