Abyssal Bloodline summoning boni worth it?

[Alan Sylver]

Apart from Monster Tactician, an Abyssal Bloodline Sorc seems to be the only class that gives summoned creatures an inherent bonus, in the form of DR (and an added summon on level 15, of course).

My problem is that this prevents me from taking on Arcane Trickster, which would buff rays and shapeshifted forms tremendously, and would let me sling backstab fireballs and other shenanigans around the same time the added summon would come online. So, has anyone tried out how much of a difference the DR makes in the fights of this game? Or how much difference one summon more per spell makes during the late game?

Edit: it's for hard difficulty.

[InEffect]

Depends on the difficulty, really, And even with that in mind it's important to understand they are first and foremost a fodder.
DR in general is most useful on casual difficulties and doesn't work at all on unfair.
With the above in mind, best summoning spells are elemental swarm and Animate dead. The latter doesn't get affected by summon things at all, only by a special staff. The former I honestly don't know. They don't get affected by superior summoning for sure.

[Alan Sylver]

It's for hard difficulty. Edited initial post to reflect this.

[InEffect]

Originally posted by Alan Sylver:

It's for hard difficulty. Edited initial post to reflect this.

For hard it's best to treat them like a fodder. DR will be helpful a bit, but won't change the game for you.

[Alan Sylver]

And the added summon on level 15? I'd assume nice, but not game-changing as well?

[InEffect]

well, yeah, Thing is, you can't kill endgame with summons, which is what you are probably asking about. Summons are basically healing spells in disguise with a bit of damage attached. So in that respect DR is like giving your healing spells a bit more healing power. That being said level 9 summons can do some decent damage, just nothing too spectacular.

[Alan Sylver]

Sounds like I would be better off with either an Arcane Trickster Raycaster or a Sylvan's Animal Companion. Both of those could still summon creatures, but won't have the DR.

If it makes a difference, my group is going to buff a lot with AOE buffs. I think summons will be a good fit for that. I want to see how summons perform with a Sensei's bardsong, the occasional True Strike and a Tactical Leader's team feats (Outflank/Seize The Moment + a crit fighter in the front row).

[Shadenuat]

Summons can't be buffed.

[Alan Sylver]

So I can give my summons teamwork feats via Monster Tactician, but not Tactical Leader? Gee... thanks for telling me, though.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by Shadenuat:

Summons can't be buffed.

There are some buffs. I had a ring that would give my summons 30 cold resistance

And I also had a staff that gave them +(some #) weapon enhancements

[AzureTheGamerKobold]

The power of abyssal isn't in the strength or damage reduction of the summons. it's in the number of minions you get and the fact you can spam it, because you get +2 minions every time you summon and roll dice. The idea with abyssal is to SWARM the field with summons and provide tons of distraction while your team pick the enemy apart, i used this build on my first play through on challenging and it worked out just fine.

Example
Summon monster 2, 1d3 creatures +2
Round 1: 3+2=5 monsters
Round 2 2+2=4 monsters
Round 3 1+2=3 monsters
ect

this snowballs really fast... the DR is just some extra padding but it wont really stop them from death.

[Alan Sylver]

The question is whether the DR and one extra summon is worth the Abyssal bloodline. Because one of the +2 you mention I can get on other characters, and the other +1 is lategame only. I can build a Sylvan Sorcerer and do the same swarm technique, with lategame-only one summon less, but allgame one Animal Companion more.

[Mortis]

Best summoner on harder difficulties is the druid. Creeping doom and elemental swarm are very useful. Elementals are immune (e.g. sneak attack + crits) to a lot of things and insect swarms can be devestating.
Defender of the true world druid also gives inherent bonus to summons and animal companion.

Cleric herald caller with air or earth domain is also a good summoner. They get elemental swarm spells and animate dead.