Cleric Crusader question....are there more benefits then the 4 bonus feats ?

[saliddry]

wiki still isnt complete and as i played as an feyspeaker i at level 14 or so got the info that i have lower bab and fewer spellslots than an normal druid.,..

for that i ask before i start a new game.....

a combat cleric would be cool allways used favoured soul for that in neverwinter nights

i allready noticed that it first f... me with domains.... the only 2 who allow a pet are way off from my normal caotic good char .....

and favourite weapon of the only one still acceptable is longbow ???

so there quite a few negatives for that i ask if the crusader gets more benefits than this 4 bonus feats since game normaly ends around level 16

does he get an better bab?
or something else not stated in this info lacking game ?

[saliddry]

well i got some good ideas here ..normaly in neverwinter i used favoured soul with monkeygrip to use 2 handed weapons 1 hand (spear) + stormlord

but there quite a few things i dont like from the pathfinder ruleset... would directly trade it for an new neverwinter nights but is is none

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Harukage:

Imo it is more viable to just go Paladin if you want good melee with divine spellcasting. Or get a mod and go Warpriest.

Paladin brings a lot of unique things to the table and is in fact my favorite MC (especially hospitaler with death immunity and a ton of healing), but four levels of divine casting that starts out delayed by four levels isn’t nine.

Crusader is the class that best uses the big cleric combat buffs and gives up the cleric offensive spells to do it.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by VN Michael Doan:

well, u can make him a pretty nice off tank.

Hes not gonna out dps a pure fighter, or has as many spells as Clerics though.

You are not gonna suffer a lot of feat starve early game for defensive stuff. As a pure class, its pretty neat for that purpose, but will get overshadowed by a Multiclass cleric very quickly, especially on higher difficulty setting.

Defensive feats in general are meh. You could run dwarf to increase survivability early with racial vs giants (trolls and zombies) and better saves.

The benefit of straight cleric is higher caster level and several of your buffs get better as your caster level goes up. You’ll want an extend rod badly. Plus you’ll get to higher level spells sooner.

A rogue/thug 4 splash DEX-based shield basher would be interesting. You get some good light armor and light shields mid-game, and you could use the rogue talents to fill out your combat feats while picking up uncanny dodge and evasion. Fast caster advancement let’s you catch back up. You’re still getting your third level spells by level nine, and fourth level in time for when you need them in the tombs.

Sneaks give extra damage on every attack.

[[VN] Michael Doan]

Originally posted by dwarner:

Originally posted by VN Michael Doan:

well, u can make him a pretty nice off tank.

Hes not gonna out dps a pure fighter, or has as many spells as Clerics though.

You are not gonna suffer a lot of feat starve early game for defensive stuff. As a pure class, its pretty neat for that purpose, but will get overshadowed by a Multiclass cleric very quickly, especially on higher difficulty setting.

Defensive feats in general are meh. You could run dwarf to increase survivability early with racial vs giants (trolls and zombies) and better saves.

The benefit of straight cleric is higher caster level and several of your buffs get better as your caster level goes up. You’ll want an extend rod badly. Plus you’ll get to higher level spells sooner.

Defensive stuff is meh ?

Brother, Try hard difficulty and above. u gonna beg for each and every point of AC bonus at early level.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by VN Michael Doan:

Originally posted by dwarner:

Defensive feats in general are meh. You could run dwarf to increase survivability early with racial vs giants (trolls and zombies) and better saves.

The benefit of straight cleric is higher caster level and several of your buffs get better as your caster level goes up. You’ll want an extend rod badly. Plus you’ll get to higher level spells sooner.

Defensive stuff is meh ?

Brother, Try hard difficulty and above. u gonna beg for each and every point of AC bonus at early level.

I am playing hard. 1 AC per feat is really, really bad.

Let your tank tank or throw out some chaff.

[[VN] Michael Doan]

Originally posted by dwarner:

Originally posted by VN Michael Doan:

Defensive stuff is meh ?

Brother, Try hard difficulty and above. u gonna beg for each and every point of AC bonus at early level.

I am playing hard. 1 AC per feat is really, really bad.

Wat, the heavy armor proficiency alone gives you 3 or 4 more AC depend on your stats.

The Tower shield proficiency gave u 2 more AC.

[dwarner]

P

Originally posted by VN Michael Doan:

Originally posted by dwarner:

I am playing hard. 1 AC per feat is really, really bad.

Wat, the heavy armor proficiency alone gives you 3 or 4 more AC depend on your stats.

The Tower shield proficiency gave u 2 more AC.

If you want to play a tank just splash however many levels of TSS you want.

Straight Crusader:

Human, Erastil, Community Domain

Feats in order:

Crusader (Shield Bash, Weapon Focus Falcata, Improved Crit Falcata - 15-20, x3 on Lion’s Claw, Weapon Specialization Falcata, Greater Weapon Spec Falcata)

Regular: Two-weapon fighting, Double Slice, Exotic Falcata, Dazzling, Outflank, Shatter, Blindfight, Improved two weapon, shield mastery, bashing finish, greater two-weapon

Notable buffs:

(1) Bless is domain, Shield of faith +1 per six caster levels, Stunning barrier is nice for an off-tank caster with extra attacks - good for O and D, Divine favor: +1/+1 luck (stacks) per three levels on every swing/bash, x3 with falcata crit

(2) Prot from Alignment Communal domain spell good at lvl 3, Effortless armor (no armor training so even medium slows you down)

(3) Prayer domain, Archon’s Aura best spell in the game and you’ll be in melee to reach all mobs, Vestment is great after level eight

(4) Prot energy, communal domain nice to always have available, Divine Power = divine favor with an extra full attack and stacking strength bonus, Crusader’s Edge owns demons and soul eaters with min/lvl duration

At level eight you get Guarded Hearth

(5) Burst of glory domain = stacking attack bonus/aid aoe (another nice one to have when you need it), Righteous Might, Spell Resistance (goes by caster lvl and you’re straight caster)

(6) you hit this at lvl 11, the strength of the class

Stone skin communal domain, Eaglesoul is sacred, stacks with divine power (luck), which stacks with righteous might (size), dispel magic (greater)

(7) Greater Restoration domain (again nice to always have on tap), lots of great summons

(8) Legendary Proportions domain = 16 minutes of insanity, Angelic Aspect, Greater protects you and your team, also 16 min

As a straight caster you get these by level 15.

(9) Heal, Mass domain, Overwhelming presence

Can’t get improved two-weapon until lvl 9 because of BAB requirements, likewise with shield mastery so a splash in a full BAB class could help you get your shield bashing fully online if you want to focus on that.

[Mork]

19 dex at level 20..

That is not the same, of course heavy armor is a bad feat....

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Mork:

19 dex at level 20..

That is not the same, of course heavy armor is a bad feat....

By then you’re getting a ton of dex from equipment. You can start at 13 then use the +2 dex belt from the manticore at the very beginning to level or just start at 15. It’s a huge waste to take heavy armor proficiency.

If you want it to use heavy, just splash a level of a class that has it. But heavy is a bad match for two-weapon unless you’re a fighter. Weapon specialization takes a four level splash instead of just one, so that’s the unique thing crusader brings to the table.

Best build I think is with five to eight levels of monk so you can use weapon specialization on your unarmed strikes or sais, and the BAB opens up your key feats earlier. And you still get to your second domain ability. Law is a good match for a monk and lets you take 11 on skill checks.

Pummeling charge with greater two-weapon fighting is gross. The more you you hit, the better weapon specialization is.

The good crusader feats are weapon focus, shield bash, improved crit, and specialization.

[Mork]

Originally posted by dwarner:

Originally posted by Mork:

19 dex at level 20..

That is not the same, of course heavy armor is a bad feat....

By then you’re getting a ton of dex from equipment. You can start at 13 then use the +2 dex belt from the manticore at the very beginning to level or just start at 15. It’s a huge waste to take heavy armor proficiency.

If you want it to use heavy, just splash a level of a class that has it. But heavy is a bad match for two-weapon unless you’re a fighter. Weapon specialization takes a four level splash instead of just one, so that’s the unique thing crusader brings to the table.

Best build I think is with five to eight levels of monk so you can use weapon specialization on your unarmed strikes or sais, and the BAB opens up your key feats earlier. And you still get to your second domain ability. Law is a good match for a monk and lets you take 11 on skill checks.

Pummeling charge with greater two-weapon fighting is gross. The more you you hit, the better weapon specialization is.

The good crusader feats are weapon focus, shield bash, improved crit, and specialization.

Using item to get feats ...

I though this was a bug/exploit but with some research it is not. That kinda change thing! hehe

As long as your ability score meets the prerequisite, you can take the feat. No matter if you bump it up from racial bonuses, or level advancement and items.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Mork:

Originally posted by dwarner:

By then you’re getting a ton of dex from equipment. You can start at 13 then use the +2 dex belt from the manticore at the very beginning to level or just start at 15. It’s a huge waste to take heavy armor proficiency.

If you want it to use heavy, just splash a level of a class that has it. But heavy is a bad match for two-weapon unless you’re a fighter. Weapon specialization takes a four level splash instead of just one, so that’s the unique thing crusader brings to the table.

Best build I think is with five to eight levels of monk so you can use weapon specialization on your unarmed strikes or sais, and the BAB opens up your key feats earlier. And you still get to your second domain ability. Law is a good match for a monk and lets you take 11 on skill checks.

Pummeling charge with greater two-weapon fighting is gross. The more you you hit, the better weapon specialization is.

The good crusader feats are weapon focus, shield bash, improved crit, and specialization.

Using item to get feats ...

I though this was a bug/exploit but with some research it is not. That kinda change thing! hehe

As long as your ability score meets the prerequisite, you can take the feat. No matter if you bump it up from racial bonuses, or level advancement and items.

You do lose the use of the feat if you take off the equipment (it comes back on when you put it back on).

You could just make a good dex/wis build with four levels of Rogue/Thug for all kinds of good things for shield bashers then the rest Crusader. You can even get dex to damage on shields then use an agile weapon.

[Pink Eye]

Yeah, what he said. I don't exploit that kind of thing though, because one day I might take it off, then accidentally lose the feat.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Pink Eye:

Yeah, what he said. I don't exploit that kind of thing though, because one day I might take it off, then accidentally lose the feat.

It’s not an exploit at all. You have to keep the equipment on. It doesn’t go away for good if you take it off or anything.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by VN Michael Doan:

Originally posted by dwarner:

I am playing hard. 1 AC per feat is really, really bad.

Wat, the heavy armor proficiency alone gives you 3 or 4 more AC depend on your stats.

The Tower shield proficiency gave u 2 more AC.

Sorry, thought you meant shield or armor focus. Here’s a hardier build for hard:

Start with Divine Guardian dwarf to get heavy armor and martial proficiency, nobility domain, then one level of Crusader for bonus feat weapon focus Dwarven Waraxe, which is a martial weapon for dwarves and has a d10 for damage so is perfect for your enlarging buffs.

Two more levels of Guardian get you the Divine Bodyguard skill, which lets you give your main tank +4 AC whenever he is attacked at the cost of an attack of opportunity, and In Harm’s Way, which lets you take damage when he gets hit and all the effects. Since it’s your tank, that won’t be often, but with Steel Soul you'll be able to take the effects better.

Make sure to pick up combat reflexes to fuel bodyguard. If you’re good you can use blessed plate for some extra smites and a wis/cha boost.

Finish up with straight Crusader from there, picking up Tower Shield proficiency with your bonus feat at level 8 when the good Tower Shields start showing up. Improved crit will be nice at 13 about the time Harrim gets you a very nice waraxe. Until then just use the various bane weapons you find.

Nobility’s first ability is good early and the second one is a double prayer you can use 3+ wis mod per rest.

[Rakle]

Crusader is also a good negative energy channeler. Take the glory domain. Pump CHA . The character only needs a mediocre wisdom since it sucks at spells. Use the first free feat to take heavy armor. Stomp around the battle field zapping the enemies, or finishing off the nearly dead.