Cleric Crusader question....are there more benefits then the 4 bonus feats ?

[saliddry]

wiki still isnt complete and as i played as an feyspeaker i at level 14 or so got the info that i have lower bab and fewer spellslots than an normal druid.,..

for that i ask before i start a new game.....

a combat cleric would be cool allways used favoured soul for that in neverwinter nights

i allready noticed that it first f... me with domains.... the only 2 who allow a pet are way off from my normal caotic good char .....

and favourite weapon of the only one still acceptable is longbow ???

so there quite a few negatives for that i ask if the crusader gets more benefits than this 4 bonus feats since game normaly ends around level 16

does he get an better bab?
or something else not stated in this info lacking game ?

[Mork]

No they don't get anything else. I think crusader is a trap even for battle cleric. They lose 1 spell/ caster level and 1 domain and gain *useless* feats. BAB is the same as a normal cleric.

The base cleric with 1 level of fighter is a better choice. However they will never be huge damage dealer. They become good offtank for normal to hard. Also, keep in mind that healing in melee can be dangerous

[deuxhero]

No secret advantage. Crusader is well known for being an utterly horrible archetype. Even without diminished spellcasting it would be meh.

If you want a divine caster that kills stuff with weapons, get Eldritch Arcana and Call of the Wild mods. CotW introduces Warpriest, which has the same BAB as cleric with fewer spells BUT is profient with everything (including one exotic weapon if it's their deity's favored weapon), has bonus feats (that they qualify for as if they had full BAB) and, most importantly, can cast buffs as a swift action so they can full attack the same turn. A Warpriest with the Fate's Favored trait (added by Eldritch Arcana) that just casts Divine Favor effectively is MORE accurate as a full BAB character, and does extra damage. With further buffs, they RIP AND TEAR.

[Mork]

here a good example Erastil animal/community

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1845901103
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1845901351

He can easily get +7 ac with combat expertise + fighting defensively and the bear become a good end game pet with the scimitar.

also that one

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1819161726

I like battle cleric a lot as main character since it need high base stats.

[[VN] Michael Doan]

well, u can make him a pretty nice off tank.

Hes not gonna out dps a pure fighter, or has as many spells as Clerics though.

You are not gonna suffer a lot of feat starve early game for defensive stuff. As a pure class, its pretty neat for that purpose, but will get overshadowed by a Multiclass cleric very quickly, especially on higher difficulty setting.

[Drake]

Crusader is missing the real unique feat of the class. They should have at least tinkered some kind of group feat instead of just removing the legion's blessing.

The original pnp had an ability that let you spontaneously cast a touch spell buff as a party spell (to buff the entire party at once). The point of the original crusader is to have a tanky cleric that can quickly buff a melee oriented party (with a real melee close formation, turle like roman legion) and hold his ground.

Without it it's just some kind of subpar cleric/fighter hybrid, it's not bad, but there is no point to really pick it outside of pure crusader roleplay.

[dwarner]

Game doesn’t end at sixteen. I’m halfway thru sixteen and just started Pitax.

Feats are the number one most precious commodity in this game. Crusader can cast ninth level spells at level 17 (most importantly third level at five) and can still be a full-on shield basher with bashing finish while also getting shatter defenses and outflank.

No other class can do that.

Guarded hearth at level eight? Yes please.

[deuxhero]

And Crusader is also terrible at all those compared to a specialist.

Spells are in-fact far more precious than feats. Fighter gets a lot of feats, but it's hardly a good class.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by deuxhero:

And Crusader is also terrible at all those compared to a specialist.

Nice evidence, hot shot.

It’s the all that’s important. No one else can do both. You give up worrying about beating saves to beat face instead.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by deuxhero:

And Crusader is also terrible at all those compared to a specialist.

Spells are in-fact far more precious than feats. Fighter gets a lot of feats, but it's hardly a good class.

Just because you don’t know how to build a synergistic team, it does not follow that those classes are bad. High BAB/a lot of attacks are very good when you’ve got your team buffed and the bad guys debuffed.

There are other ways to play the game than nuking while the other five characters pick their noses then having to rest every other fight.

[dwarner]

One big problem that fighters have is that they messed up the implementation of combat maneuvers. Disarm and Sunder are supposed to replace individual attacks, not be standard actions that take your whole turn.

So you’d get multiple bites at the apple each turn and/or could sunder with first attack while hitting with the others.

As it is, five (for weapon training so you can use duelist gloves) or seven (for normal speed heavy armor) levels of straight fighter, eight of Aldori (for steel net and greater specialization), or nine for TSS for shield to touch are all very solid.

[Mork]

I find the base fighter sword and shield style really good for hard and below. They don't need many buffs or don't need buff at all, making it a great asset in many part of the game.

[=[NK]= Col. Jack O'Neil]

Originally posted by dwarner:

One big problem that fighters have is that they messed up the implementation of combat maneuvers. Disarm and Sunder are supposed to replace individual attacks, not be standard actions that take your whole turn.

So you’d get multiple bites at the apple each turn and/or could sunder with first attack while hitting with the others.

As it is, five (for weapon training so you can use duelist gloves) or seven (for normal speed heavy armor) levels of straight fighter, eight of Aldori (for steel net and greater specialization), or nine for TSS for shield to touch are all very solid.

There are mods that fix this

[dwarner]

Originally posted by =NK= Col. Jack O'Neil:

Originally posted by dwarner:

One big problem that fighters have is that they messed up the implementation of combat maneuvers. Disarm and Sunder are supposed to replace individual attacks, not be standard actions that take your whole turn.

So you’d get multiple bites at the apple each turn and/or could sunder with first attack while hitting with the others.

As it is, five (for weapon training so you can use duelist gloves) or seven (for normal speed heavy armor) levels of straight fighter, eight of Aldori (for steel net and greater specialization), or nine for TSS for shield to touch are all very solid.

There are mods that fix this

I’ll come back for the mods in a year or two. The crusader build I’d like to see is using all the shield spells that damage mobs for hitting you plus six attacks and bashing finish.

[jsaving]

I don't see the crusader as being either great or terrible, but rather an average class in the game. if you're looking to max your caster level and 9th level spell slots while also gaining a moderate amount of melee prowess, the crusader lets you do that. If you're not especially interested in maxing your casting ability, you can consider splashing fighter or paladin (or both). Listen to @Mork though, none of these will give you top-tier melee DPS or anything close to it. That isn't what a cleric is designed to do so you'd likely want to try a different class if that's what you are looking to have.

[Harukage]

Imo it is more viable to just go Paladin if you want good melee with divine spellcasting. Or get a mod and go Warpriest.