Roahin and InEffect

[Lyekin]

Can anyone link me to where I can find these two guys build lists? I enjoy building myself, but I'm just not familiar with the pathfinder pen and paper game enough to invest the time it would take not to have to restart multiple times. Thanks in advance!

[Finrod]

For ineffect, just type in Google "Ineffect GOG"

https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/ineffects_guide_v2/page1

The other I don't know him

[haplok]

I think he's also on GOG.

[Lord Yanaek]

Roahin have created some builds for Companions which i find much more interesting (i didn't say better) than those from InEffect, not sure he's done anything for main.

https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds/page1

I would advice some caution blindly following InEffect guides, especially those for main character. They are certainly very efficient, but that's it. Judging from his guides he's a much better min-maxer than role player. You don't need to play a dumb (7 Int because you don't have a GM forcing you role-play how dumb your character is) lawfull (because Monk) character to beat the game. Especially below Unfair (and even on Unfair, but it's harder) you can build your idea of a hero, you can be smart, you can be chaotic and still win the game unlike what his builds might lead you to believe.

[Finrod]

Being legal gives a building in Kingdom management which really helps (bulletin boards)

In Ineffect guide, the alternative build for Jaethal (true follower of urgathoa) and Valerie (the annoying dragon) are very good.
The Sylvan sorcerer is good too.
And it really helped me with the kinetist, I really didn't know what to do with this class.
His guides really helped me with some feats and spells recommendations. Sure, I may have finished the game without...

[Lord Yanaek]

InEffect's guides are very ... efficient
Good depends how much you value role-playing vs number stacking.

Also, kingdom management is another story and not the reason every single one of his main character builds take a 1 level dip in monk (talk about diversity)

His companion builds are much better because he couldn't just create a min-maxed abomination but had to get something good out of what Owlcat created, and some of them are really creative.

[Finrod]

There is nothing wrong with some min-maxing... and Ineffect builds are made to be playable on unfair. I have no problems if MC builds have one level in monk, if it is the best for AC stacking. The importance in AC, more than not caring about role-play is due to the numbers in unfair difficulty

His focus on legal characters, seemed to me, more driven by the bulletin boards of Kingdom Management... He also makes dips in alchemist vivisectionist

[Lord Yanaek]

Originally posted by Finrod:

... and Ineffect builds are made to be playable on unfair...

Which is also one of the reasons i advice against blindly following them. OP said nothing about which difficulty he plans to play. Such builds would trivialize any difficulty below unfair, which are the difficulty levels balanced for players who want to role play rather than stack AC numbers.

His builds are optimized for damage and tanking but there's more to this game than just that. Certainly below Unfair and from what i've read, (didn't try Unfair myself) even Unfair doesn't require such cheasy builds, but then you have to play really smart.

Take his Tristian Mystic Theurge build for example. Trisitan gives up most of his Archetypes advantages if he goes that route. Does being able to spam Scorching Rays and Fireballs makes up for the loss of his insane channels and his incredibly useful Touch of Good (aka "i'll pass that skill check") ability? Unlike raw damage output those abilities can't be measured because the first one's value is determined by your willingness to spend 5 real life minutes using scrolls after a fight (rather than using 2-3 channels) to bring everyone to full health while the second depends on how badly you want to succeed at those diplomacy checks to avoid a fight and whether or not you're willing to save scum to succeed or not.

Anyway, i never said his builds are bad, but they are not for every difficulty and certainly not for everyone, which is why i advised some caution. I've read those builds myself, got some ideas, rejected others, made up my mind and figured what i could play/allow in a real table, but didn't just try to copy a build without first analysing it.

[dwarner]

Some of InEffect's advice is very inefficient. He's hyperfocused on solo builds and doesn't understand team dynamics or debuffing. He basically plays on a level of difficulty two or three levels higher than unfair.

He once told me he cheeses most of the game with Stinking Cloud/Delay Poison, which makes sense since he never learned how to buff his team.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Lord Yanaek:

Originally posted by Finrod:

... and Ineffect builds are made to be playable on unfair...

Which is also one of the reasons i advice against blindly following them. OP said nothing about which difficulty he plans to play. Such builds would trivialize any difficulty below unfair, which are the difficulty levels balanced for players who want to role play rather than stack AC numbers.

His builds are optimized for damage and tanking but there's more to this game than just that. Certainly below Unfair and from what i've read, (didn't try Unfair myself) even Unfair doesn't require such cheasy builds, but then you have to play really smart.

Take his Tristian Mystic Theurge build for example. Trisitan gives up most of his Archetypes advantages if he goes that route. Does being able to spam Scorching Rays and Fireballs makes up for the loss of his insane channels and his incredibly useful Touch of Good (aka "i'll pass that skill check") ability? Unlike raw damage output those abilities can't be measured because the first one's value is determined by your willingness to spend 5 real life minutes using scrolls after a fight (rather than using 2-3 channels) to bring everyone to full health while the second depends on how badly you want to succeed at those diplomacy checks to avoid a fight and whether or not you're willing to save scum to succeed or not.

Anyway, i never said his builds are bad, but they are not for every difficulty and certainly not for everyone, which is why i advised some caution. I've read those builds myself, got some ideas, rejected others, made up my mind and figured what i could play/allow in a real table, but didn't just try to copy a build without first analysing it.

Actually the MT bomber build for Tristian is Roahin's and InEffect doesn't understand it. Touch of Good is indeed great but Mystic Theurge needs to be played to be appreciated.

But your point is generally valid. My favorite InEffect advice was telling a little kid to change Lingering Performance to Accomplished Sneak Attack and to make his Bard an EK after level 7. Anyone who has ever played a Bard will understand how disastrous that advice is not just for the Bard but for the whole team.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Finrod:

There is nothing wrong with some min-maxing... and Ineffect builds are made to be playable on unfair. I have no problems if MC builds have one level in monk, if it is the best for AC stacking. The importance in AC, more than not caring about role-play is due to the numbers in unfair difficulty

His focus on legal characters, seemed to me, more driven by the bulletin boards of Kingdom Management... He also makes dips in alchemist vivisectionist

And the Vivi dips are often suboptimal. Some of the monk splashes exploit the Crane Wing bug as well.

Roahin is a great source for ideas, InEffect for bad habits.

[Finrod]

The tristian mystic theurge build must be one of his alternative builds, the normal one being ecclesitheurge to level 20 with extra channel feats. (I don't see the build you mention in ineffect's thread)
If the wizard part it the theurge is the scroll specialist arquetype, it s not so good in my opinion.

In the end, I don't think that caution is too necessary, if one finds that the builds he copied are very powerful, he can slide up the difficulty if he wants/needs, so that's not a big issue. Even one can decide to use respec if he finds he's too optimized or the build too difficult to play.

The not for everyone, I don't know... I don't find them difficult to play
And I would play in the videogame things I wouldn't allow in PnP.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Finrod:

The tristian mystic theurge build must be one of his alternative builds, the normal one being ecclesitheurge to level 20 with extra channel feats. (I don't see the build you mention in ineffect's thread)
If the wizard part it the theurge is the scroll specialist arquetype, it s not so good in my opinion.

In the end, I don't think that caution is too necessary, if one finds that the builds he copied are very powerful, he can slide up the difficulty if he wants/needs, so that's not a big issue. Even one can decide to use respec if he finds he's too optimized or the build too difficult to play.

The not for everyone, I don't know... I don't find them difficult to play
And I would play in the videogame things I wouldn't allow in PnP.

It’s not in InEffect’s thread, it’s in Roahin’s. Extra Channel feats are awful. Scroll Savant doesn’t work with MT because it needs ten levels of Wiz. If you use InEffect builds you don’t develop much of an understanding of the game, because they’re based on a limited understanding.

That’s the principal drawback.

[Lyekin]

I have never played Pathfinder the table top, and I've spent 11 hours in game just trying to figure out how to build basically. I was just looking for builds to try to recreate a few of my favorite characters from a book I've read. The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson. I'm looking for a way to re-create Kaladin Stormblessed and Dalinar Kholin. I'd love to hear your suggestions on what class you feel they should be. I'd like the builds to be playable on any difficulty. I primarily play RPGs, and have never felt so overwhelmed when building a character.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Lyekin:

I have never played Pathfinder the table top, and I've spent 11 hours in game just trying to figure out how to build basically. I was just looking for builds to try to recreate a few of my favorite characters from a book I've read. The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson. I'm looking for a way to re-create Kaladin Stormblessed and Dalinar Kholin. I'd love to hear your suggestions on what class you feel they should be. I'd like the builds to be playable on any difficulty. I primarily play RPGs, and have never felt so overwhelmed when building a character.

Ultimately the best way to learn is to play yourself and discover what works. The nice thing is you learn about six (at least) different builds each time you play. You can leave on auto-level for the companions the first time through and notice what it chooses and see if you agree with it.

If you read the Roahin’s companion builds it will give you a lot of ideas for your own. That’s where I started.

https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/companion_builds

Looks like Kaladin would make a good Thundercaller Bard fighting with a Longspear, which would put him in a good position for his songs and spells without risking the thick of combat.

Important feats: Lingering Performance, Weapon Focus:Longspear, Dazzling Display, Outflank, Shatter Defenses

[Finrod]

Originally posted by dwarner:

Actually the MT bomber build for Tristian is Roahin's and InEffect doesn't understand it. Touch of Good is indeed great but Mystic Theurge needs to be played to be appreciated.

For me it would be very difficult to appreciate a mystic theurge. I suffered it in PnP in two campaigns (another player), and they were a burden to the team. Those 3 levels you get behind a pure caster is too costly (in my own opinion). I see some people here appreciate MT like pinkeye.
I would only have a mystic theurge in the capital and use it in the last third of the game. (Beginning at level 12)

Between MT and pure ecclesitheurge, here I prefer Tristan as pure ecclesitheurge as in Ineffect's