Sensei monk question

[wulfster42]

I'm doing my first harder difficulty run soon and I'm putting a band together. Got a pure vivi + A ranger freeboter already, next up is the monk.

I don't want a bard (I love them in DnD but just doesn't seem great in this game), and want to go with Sensei monk instead (just seems far better over all).

Thing I'm curious about is the ability to give monk abilities to all companions at level 14....it includes evasion in there. Does this also give the sensei monk evasion as well since he doesn't actually get it himself?

That seems (to me) to be the biggest loss (and honestly worth it) for going Sensei over traditional (although it looks like you lose most of the bonus feats as well..which is hard since my monk is an Asimar (dex + wis). Sensei gets wis to AB though, which is pretty rad. Should get a seriously high starting AC on him.

Think it's worth going Sensei even if I can't give my monk evasion (only lasts for aminute but you get a ton of ki long term as a pure monk (especially as Sensei as I'll be boosting wis the most by far). Should have over 20 ki points by the end....enough to give everyone evasion 10 times at least (and doubt it'll be needed that much).

Anyway, any sensei experts (or monk experts) out there? Am I missing something that I'm loosing etc by going Sensie?

That is my 3rd primary melee character, and I need to hit spells with 2 of the last slots and I want one ranged (Bow using) gunslinger for the 6th (no pets....running with 6 is already going to be hard.

[Pink Eye]

Oh hey look, questions about Monk, I know about those :D
>Am I missing something that I'm loosing etc by going Sensei?
Yes. For starters you miss out on flurry of blows, bonus feats, and evasion. You're essentially giving up the ability to deal damage as a monk for a team support tank.

[wulfster42]

Ack!!

I can't lose flurry of blows on a pure monk, that is 2 attacks. The bonus feats I could live with and evasion as well, but yeah, going pummeling and no way I'm giving up 2 attacks. Thanks, I didn't notice it and that would have sucked (would have noticed it in combat of course but would have had to redo stuff at that point.

Still want a monk, but just gonna go with a normal monk at this point then. Don't need cha to AC instead of wisdom. Just have to remember to get 13 (14 acutally probably for bonus skill point) int, so I can get combat expertese and trip etc....to go along with pummeling form.

Sigh that sensei looked so good, but yeah, too good to be true lolz.

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Ack!!

I can't lose flurry of blows on a pure monk, that is 2 attacks. The bonus feats I could live with and evasion as well, but yeah, going pummeling and no way I'm giving up 2 attacks. Thanks, I didn't notice it and that would have sucked (would have noticed it in combat of course but would have had to redo stuff at that point.

Still want a monk, but just gonna go with a normal monk at this point then. Don't need cha to AC instead of wisdom. Just have to remember to get 13 (14 acutally probably for bonus skill point) int, so I can get combat expertese and trip etc....to go along with pummeling form.

Sigh that sensei looked so good, but yeah, too good to be true lolz.

I think Traditional Monk is great, for those will saves. However the trade off with that one is that you can't customize your KI powers.

[Pink Eye]

Yeah, now that I think about it, the class by itself is pretty lack luster xD
But I love the class, something about punching things with your fists of justice is fun.

[wulfster42]

Hehe, yeah, I want a monk, other options would be better/stronger, but I am going pummeling so the monk will both have excellent tripping abilities, lots of Aoos, and the better charge....along with high AC, good saves, evasion etc. I might not go pure, might splash to get uncanny dodge later because so much gets lost on a monk if he's caught flat footed.

Didn't notice a will save bonus from traditional, I don't really mind not choosing the order of the monk ki powers that much. I'll check into that right now.

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Hehe, yeah, I want a monk, other options would be better/stronger, but I am going pummeling so the monk will both have excellent tripping abilities, lots of Aoos, and the better charge....along with high AC, good saves, evasion etc. I might not go pure, might splash to get uncanny dodge later because so much gets lost on a monk if he's caught flat footed.

Didn't notice a will save bonus from traditional, I don't really mind not choosing the order of the monk ki powers that much. I'll check into that right now.

Yeah the will saves from Traditional monk are great. Will saves are king in these types of games.

>might splash to get uncanny dodge later because so much gets lost on a monk if he's caught flat footed.
Eh, I always pull aggro on my tanks. Cast enlarge on my monk and have him safely attack from range.

[Pink Eye]

For example, you want to have your monk punching things from a safe distance. While your tanks take the blunt of the damage.

Here's an example: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1865859674

Of course this is all dependent on whether or not you can force a good choke point.

[haplok]

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Still want a monk, but just gonna go with a normal monk at this point then. Don't need cha to AC instead of wisdom. Just have to remember to get 13 (14 acutally probably for bonus skill point) int, so I can get combat expertese and trip etc....to go along with pummeling form.

Please check this, it might be that the monk qualifies for Trip/Greater without Combat Expertise (at appropriate levels). Class bonus feats tend to skip requirements (like Monk getting Crane Style without Dodge... or Earth Kineticist getting Trip without Combat Expertise).

[Pink Eye]

Originally posted by haplok:

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Still want a monk, but just gonna go with a normal monk at this point then. Don't need cha to AC instead of wisdom. Just have to remember to get 13 (14 acutally probably for bonus skill point) int, so I can get combat expertese and trip etc....to go along with pummeling form.

Please check this, it might be that the monk qualifies for Trip/Greater without Combat Expertise (at appropriate levels). Class bonus feats tend to skip requirements (like Monk getting Crane Style without Dodge... or Earth Kineticist getting Trip without Combat Expertise).

Monk qualifies for improved tip with bonus feat. He can also use leg sweep to trip enemies as a free action.

[wulfster42]

Yeah, sadly already made my monk, but I noticed/realized I could get combat expertese as a bonus feat without meeting the pre-reqs. Oh well, not the end of the world.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by haplok:

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Still want a monk, but just gonna go with a normal monk at this point then. Don't need cha to AC instead of wisdom. Just have to remember to get 13 (14 acutally probably for bonus skill point) int, so I can get combat expertese and trip etc....to go along with pummeling form.

Please check this, it might be that the monk qualifies for Trip/Greater without Combat Expertise (at appropriate levels). Class bonus feats tend to skip requirements (like Monk getting Crane Style without Dodge... or Earth Kineticist getting Trip without Combat Expertise).

Sensei doesn’t get second bonus feat until way late. Third bonus feat for other monks at six is supposed to provide Improved Trip and Improved Disarm but there are no such feats. You can get regular Trip or Disarm but IIRC actually need prereqs, though I could be mistaken.

Definitely should check before putting INT up as you can be stretched for stats.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Yeah, sadly already made my monk, but I noticed/realized I could get combat expertese as a bonus feat without meeting the pre-reqs. Oh well, not the end of the world.

I think the idea is to skip Expertise too but I think then you’re hosed for Greater Trip, but I could be wrong.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Ack!!

I can't lose flurry of blows on a pure monk, that is 2 attacks. The bonus feats I could live with and evasion as well, but yeah, going pummeling and no way I'm giving up 2 attacks. Thanks, I didn't notice it and that would have sucked (would have noticed it in combat of course but would have had to redo stuff at that point.

Still want a monk, but just gonna go with a normal monk at this point then. Don't need cha to AC instead of wisdom. Just have to remember to get 13 (14 acutally probably for bonus skill point) int, so I can get combat expertese and trip etc....to go along with pummeling form.

Sigh that sensei looked so good, but yeah, too good to be true lolz.

Sensei does things no other class can do. WIS to hit is a unique effect. You still get the second extra attack at lvl 11 and the free Trip with Sweep the Leg (and with WIS to hit you can use Fury’s Fall unlike DEX monks). Giving everyone Barkskin 5 for long duration is really good and a big timesaver, Mass True Strike is great when other characters (like pets) are using combat maneuvers, and Mass Diamond Soul gives your whole team high Spell Resistance.

And of course you’ve got Inspire Courage/Greatness to stack with different songs your Bard is singing (Heroics especially).

If your only concern is DPS on every toon you’re doing it wrong.

If you want to test classes load a save from a late play through, respec, then test it. When I did that with Sensei it was really powerful in unique ways.

Also not a bad two-level splash for a max WIS character.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Hehe, yeah, I want a monk, other options would be better/stronger, but I am going pummeling so the monk will both have excellent tripping abilities, lots of Aoos, and the better charge....along with high AC, good saves, evasion etc. I might not go pure, might splash to get uncanny dodge later because so much gets lost on a monk if he's caught flat footed.

Didn't notice a will save bonus from traditional, I don't really mind not choosing the order of the monk ki powers that much. I'll check into that right now.

If you splash Tactical Leader for WIS to initiative you wouldn’t often need Dodge, and you could even share Tandem Trip with pets and cast some high DC Castigates.

[dwarner]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1865385937

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1865385615

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1865385064

And yes that's Wild Shaped Smilodon Amiri dropping the Creeping Doom hammer for rub-ins. All tests on Unfair. As you can see, Mass skills also include the Sensei.