Good way to use Crusader Cleric

[wulfster42]

I've heard advice before to not go crusader and the general opinion is it's not worth losing the 1 spell per level and 1 domain, in order to gain 5 bonus feats.

Been putting together a wolf pack/beast shape team though, and a really good combo for Crusader cleric is to take Animal Domain.

This gives you a pet (and you'll have bonus feats so can take boon companion easily), but...most importantly it also gives you beast shape 3 (smilodin form), at caster level 5 (level 9).

Smilodin form gives you 5 full attacks at full BAB, and addition you can qualify for weapon spec and greater weapon spec which nets you +4 damage with natural weapons.

Only problem is you can't cast spells while in beast shape, but you can buff yourself and others before casting it.

Anyway if you take weapon focus/greater weapon focus/weapon spec and greater weapon spec, you still get 1 more bonus feat as a crusader, +2 to hit, +4 to damage all the time, but you lose 1 spell per level.

[jsaving]

I agree that crusader cleric isn't the best power-wise, but that has more to do with the ecclesitheurge and herald caller being OP than with the crusader's bonus feats.

Usually somebody would be a crusader cleric because they wanted to make a moderate melee contribution without sacrificing clerical caster levels. Ordinarily you'd leverage the crusader bonus feats to wear full plate and use martial/exotic weapons while doing this. It would be quite unusual for a crusader cleric to surrender all of that and instead fight in wildshaped form without the ability to cast spells while doing so.

You are absolutely right that if you don't plan to be a "combat caster" and instead simply want to buff and then wildshape, you can do that with a crusader cleric. However I wonder if you wouldn't be better off as a defender of the true world.

[dwarner]

It's not that big a deal. Main thing Crusader is casting are buffs anyway. In combat you're fighting, not casting, whether you're wild shaped or not. I built a very strong shield basher Crusader but OP sounds like they've thought things through and come up with a great build. Weapon Spec is usually weak, but not when you've got five full attacks.

Grats.

BTW, the prereqs for Natural Spell are 13 WIS, which you've got, and the ability to Wild Shape into a wolf. So you could splash 4 levels of Defender of the True world for Feybane and get the best of both worlds. That leaves you with one more non-pet level you can spend on Trad Monk to get WIS to AC, Will save boost, and Pummeling Style.

I'd recommend a Centipede pet for an easier lategame. We're all familiar with Vermin immunities.

[dwarner]

So I built it.

(1) Beast Shape III is Bear, not Smilodon. There’s a weapon late mid-game that favors wild shaped bears, but not nearly as good as Smilodon with Weapon Specialization. You can still let Jubilost make you a Smilodon at level 16 or use the Armag’s Relic Armor, but both those are both a lot later than level nine.

(2) Crusader feats are limited as to what you can take and when. Weapon Specialization only comes available at level ten. The only bonus feats you’d want at level one and five are Weapon Focus (Claw) and Tower Shield Specialization since you can get the full benefit of a Tower Shield while wildshaped.

(3) Four levels of Defender does get you Natural Spell and Feybane (and +1/+1 for you and your pet vs Fae). Longstrider would also be nice to increase Pounce range. You’d need to be Neutral Good to get both Eaglesoul and Druid, so that rules out Monk (bad with shield anyway).

(4) Animal Domain is mostly summons so Summoning feats via Spell Focus Conjuration are worth it.

[wulfster42]

Weird.....I must have had the beast shape number off, It must be 4 that makes you a smilodon (gives you 3 choices in fact). Ugh, I hate that it takes so long to actually test things out.

That was pretty much my cleric plan right there, and yeah, bear isn't nearly as good. Well...mega blah.

[Mork]

Originally posted by wulfster42:

Weird.....I must have had the beast shape number off, It must be 4 that makes you a smilodon (gives you 3 choices in fact). Ugh, I hate that it takes so long to actually test things out.

That was pretty much my cleric plan right there, and yeah, bear isn't nearly as good. Well...mega blah.

The rogue like dlc beneath the stolen land is perfect for testing builds. You level extremely fast and its easy to reach level 20 in a few hours. It also give you a lot of money making it a perfect testing ground.

[wulfster42]

Hmmm, gonna have to get that lol:)

[dwarner]

The main game implementation of that DLC could use another pass. Embarrassing to the original devs.

Easy way to test builds is to load a high level save and go to the tavern and respec.