Weapon for pure Vivisectionist with dex focus

[Sabi The Worst Player Ever]

My party is at level 7 right now, just cleared trolls problem but I still cant figure out what should I give my Vivi. I build her around dex and int but since she cant use other weapons than simple, I have hard time selecting proper option that could make use of fineese approach. At one point I gave her DW feat and punching dagger (+1) with masterwork light mace while keeping her under mage armor protection since her low str means even light armor give medium encumbrance so she does not wear any.

Recently found amulet that allows dex-based damage for fists and natural weapons so she runs on mutagen with feral feat but Im not sure if this is optimal solution.

Any ideas?

[superlovi]

3 routes:
- grab weapon finesse + improved unarmed and go unarmed route
- grab exotic weapon proficiency falcata/estoc; weapon focus; slashing grace
- grab martal weapon proficiency and start dual wield whatever agile weapon you will find + offhand dagger

[Remove skull merchant]

At least get a simple slashing weapon or otherwise you will be dealing with dr/slashing a lot in a certain Act. By the way, what race is your Vivisectionist ?

[dwarner]

Why are you a DEX-based Vivi instead of Rogue? That can work but Rogue gets the DEX to damage feats free.

If you want to fight with Natural Attacks you can use your Beast Shape spells to do that. You will eventually get to Smilodon-form which will be insanely powerful with Vivi Sneaks.

Even Wolf form gives you some nice trips. You will need to use that amulet (there’s a +4 version later) and take Weapon Finesse feat.

Alternatively if you’re an Elf Elven Curve Blade is a nice fit with a Splash of a Martial Class and Scoundrel 4 for Image, Dodge, Debilitation, and the Finesse feats.

[Sabi The Worst Player Ever]

Originally posted by superlovi:

3 routes:
- grab weapon finesse + improved unarmed and go unarmed route
- grab exotic weapon proficiency falcata/estoc; weapon focus; slashing grace
- grab martal weapon proficiency and start dual wield whatever agile weapon you will find + offhand dagger

So except unarmed, I absolutely have to spend feats for proficiency? Sucks.

Originally posted by Herr Brappner:

At least get a simple slashing weapon or otherwise you will be dealing with dr/slashing a lot in a certain Act. By the way, what race is your Vivisectionist ?

Human. I considered Aasimar but since I neede to pump both Dex and Int, it didnt fit.

Originally posted by dwarner:

Why are you a DEX-based Vivi instead of Rogue? That can work but Rogue gets the DEX to damage feats free.

If you want to fight with Natural Attacks you can use your Beast Shape spells to do that. You will eventually get to Smilodon-form which will be insanely powerful with Vivi Sneaks.

Even Wolf form gives you some nice trips. You will need to use that amulet (there’s a +4 version later) and take Weapon Finesse feat.

Alternatively if you’re an Elf Elven Curve Blade is a nice fit with a Splash of a Martial Class and Scoundrel 4 for Image, Dodge, Debilitation, and the Finesse feats.

I wanted to play Eld. Scoundrel at first but at the same time I absolutely wanted to try that Alchemist class which looked really, really interesting. Its fun and fits my party RPing but I need more optimization.

Its not that I want natural attacks but they seems to work best at the moment, both at terms of attack bonuses and damage output. But I feel that I would need some sort of fixing since when mutagen runs out (by traveling to other location), she is much weaker that way and I try to minimize rests as much as possible.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Sabi The Worst Player Ever:

Originally posted by superlovi:

3 routes:
- grab weapon finesse + improved unarmed and go unarmed route
- grab exotic weapon proficiency falcata/estoc; weapon focus; slashing grace
- grab martal weapon proficiency and start dual wield whatever agile weapon you will find + offhand dagger

So except unarmed, I absolutely have to spend feats for proficiency? Sucks.

Originally posted by Herr Brappner:

At least get a simple slashing weapon or otherwise you will be dealing with dr/slashing a lot in a certain Act. By the way, what race is your Vivisectionist ?

Human. I considered Aasimar but since I neede to pump both Dex and Int, it didnt fit.

Originally posted by dwarner:

Why are you a DEX-based Vivi instead of Rogue? That can work but Rogue gets the DEX to damage feats free.

If you want to fight with Natural Attacks you can use your Beast Shape spells to do that. You will eventually get to Smilodon-form which will be insanely powerful with Vivi Sneaks.

Even Wolf form gives you some nice trips. You will need to use that amulet (there’s a +4 version later) and take Weapon Finesse feat.

Alternatively if you’re an Elf Elven Curve Blade is a nice fit with a Splash of a Martial Class and Scoundrel 4 for Image, Dodge, Debilitation, and the Finesse feats.

I wanted to play Eld. Scoundrel at first but at the same time I absolutely wanted to try that Alchemist class which looked really, really interesting. Its fun and fits my party RPing but I need more optimization.

Its not that I want natural attacks but they seems to work best at the moment, both at terms of attack bonuses and damage output. But I feel that I would need some sort of fixing since when mutagen runs out (by traveling to other location), she is much weaker that way and I try to minimize rests as much as possible.

You don't need to spend feats. Use your Beast Shape spells. That is what they're for.

Elves pump both DEX and INT.

You don't play full Scoundrel, you combine four levels of Scoundrel with the rest Vivi (plus one level of Fighter/Pal for martial). It's a potent combination. Mutagen is just a very powerful enhancer.

[Marcos_DS]

Originally posted by Sabi The Worst Player Ever:

Human. I considered Aasimar but since I neede to pump both Dex and Int, it didnt fit.

Actually, you don't really need to pump Int much for your vicisectionist: All you get is a few bonus spell slots without improving DCs, so 14 INT is enough to get all spells you want (you get +2 Int equipment very soon, by the time you have lvl 6 spells you probably have a +6 or even +8 mental item anyway).

I used to have an Aasimar build when the game was first released
Vivisectionist 16/Cha-Monk1/Paladin 3 build:

- Dual wields Kukris (proficiency from pal) with BAB 16
- Free bite+trip attack (due to feral infusion+wolf cloak, without AOO trigger due to monk)
- 9d6 SA damage / attack
- Cha to saves, Cha to AC, 1/rest Cha to hit (vs. evil)
- Immune to poison (vivi), fear (paladin), disease (paladin), cold, paralyze, sleep (vivi mummification)
- alchemical +8dex/+6str/+4con/+6AC 16h/rest, stacking with other boni
- lvl 6 spellcasting including transformation
- cormudgeon smash+shatter defenses+STR ability damage on hit

If you want to max damage, you could also go for Vivi17/Knifemaster3 for for 11d8 SA and dex to damage but i would rather be untouchable ^^

[jsaving]

Originally posted by Sabi The Worst Player Ever:

So except unarmed, I absolutely have to spend feats for proficiency? Sucks.

Do you "have" to? No. It is perfectly viable, though not optimal, to go with daggers rather than martial/exotic/unarmed.

The main thing to consider is which multiclass route to take, if any. Knifemaster4 gets you a better die for sneak attack damage and scoundrel4 gets you a nice suite of defensive spells. Or if you are going with a DEX/CHA build, then it can make sense to get 1-2 levels of scaled fist, 2 levels of divine hunter and/or 4 levels of thug. You can even do all three, though this will preclude you casting transformation on yourself, which might or might not be a big deal depending on party composition.

Since you are concerned about spending feats, it's worth noting that some of these multiclass possibilities are net feat-savers. Rogue gives you weapon finesse, monk gives you bonus feats, and divine hunter gives you precise shot, for example. Moreover some of these options open up useful finessable weapons, like paladin (kukri) and monk (sai). Good luck!

[Sabi The Worst Player Ever]

I actually wanted to make pure Vivisectionist without multiclassing. I can still respec of course, but I wont change the race or starting feats (one of them is fineese so its safe, cant recall which one was second right now).

I guess I will consider either martial or exotic feats in the future, like you said.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Sabi The Worst Player Ever:

I actually wanted to make pure Vivisectionist without multiclassing. I can still respec of course, but I wont change the race or starting feats (one of them is fineese so its safe, cant recall which one was second right now).

I guess I will consider either martial or exotic feats in the future, like you said.

I think you'll find Beast Shape your best bet. Wear the Cloak of the Winter Wolf from Gudrin River Bridge for the free Trip on Bite and you'll be good to go. While Beast Shaped you get bonuses from weapons and armor, but not the damage or AC, so you need bracers or Mage Armor until you find the good robes or things like Oak's Pelt. Later on there are great weapons that go well with Beast Shape. You can still use a shield and get full AC from that.

Enlarge works with it as well, as of course do Barkskin and the like.

[Mork]

3 level of rogue to focus one a specific weapon type or use any weapon you found with the 'agile' enchantment on it, like this one.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1893453755

[dwarner]

There is a good Agile rapier you get at Stag Fort or another better one from killing Mosconi. There are also good agile daggers and an agile Dueling Sword by the big Owlbears at Swamp Hut.

[superlovi]

Atm i'm rolling a monk2, vivisectionist 18.

Unarmed, power attack/courmagon/ shatter, pummeling style line/ trip line.

He's very powerful. When trasformed it gets 6 attacks ( 4 + flurry + speed; 3 at full BAB) with +35 attack bonus without any buff not from himself.

Awesome ac ( both touch and standard) for high dex, monk bonuses, monk items, mutagen, barskin, ecc

You can get about +57 bonus on trip attempt and are usually huge size ( legendary prop) so you can trip about everything. With pummeling you have 1 free trip per full attack.
Trip means more atrack for you, only 1 attack from enemy, no full action allowed.

You can stack dex from reduce person + mutagen. If you cast reduce person and after legendary proportion, you get huge size, increased reach but still matain +2 dex bonus.

You have shatter defence + greater invis to enable sneack attack on everything that is not straight immune.

The maluses:
- horrible will saves. Fortitude and reflex will be good over 30 tough ( mine were 34 and 37)
- you can't get feral mutagen: the claws override unarmed attacks, so you lose iterative attacks AND flurry.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by superlovi:

Atm i'm rolling a monk2, vivisectionist 18.

Unarmed, power attack/courmagon/ shatter, pummeling style line/ trip line.

He's very powerful. When trasformed it gets 6 attacks ( 4 + flurry + speed; 3 at full BAB) with +35 attack bonus without any buff not from himself.

Awesome ac ( both touch and standard) for high dex, monk bonuses, monk items, mutagen, barskin, ecc

You can get about +57 bonus on trip attempt and are usually huge size ( legendary prop) so you can trip about everything. With pummeling you have 1 free trip per full attack.
Trip means more atrack for you, only 1 attack from enemy, no full action allowed.

You can stack dex from reduce person + mutagen. If you cast reduce person and after legendary proportion, you get huge size, increased reach but still matain +2 dex bonus.

You have shatter defence + greater invis to enable sneack attack on everything that is not straight immune.

The maluses:
- horrible will saves. Fortitude and reflex will be good over 30 tough ( mine were 34 and 37)
- you can't get feral mutagen: the claws override unarmed attacks, so you lose iterative attacks AND flurry.

Whoa - nice spot. Beast Totem Amiri adds her Natural Attacks to her Regular attacks + bite.

[ELVIS]

Weapon Finesse (Level 1) + Feral Mutagen Discovery (Level 2) = 3 sneak attacks per round at Level 2 with no penalty to hit (unlike two-weapon fighting).