Anyone else feel Noctis is the worst protagonist in the FF series?

[Justin_760]

He never has anything significant or even mildly interesting to say, only ever complains, is a brooding moody downer 24/7, and hes apathetic to a ridiculous degree. I know, hes a young prince and sure that might be a believable behavior considering his origins, but for the main protagonist and player character, it makes no sense. Hes a one sided character with extreme emotional shallowness, only ever displaying anger or sadness.

Is anyone else shocked that Square took this direction for the MAIN protagonist? I cant wrap my head around it...

Dont get me wrong, Square clearly has the ability to write good characters, as we see with the rest of Nocts entourage, but its such a dissapointment that were stuck with such a vapid and triffling hero. He never vocalizes opinions on anything, and 90% of his responses to people are petty inanities. That may work for some characters, but with Noctis it gives precious little room for growth, because not only do we never get insight into his character, but the character that is there is so damn shallow he is VERY hard to empathize with and like.

It almost feels like they were trying to shape Noctis into a character that would have appeal to younger audiences, as the developers have stated numerous times, they wanted to bring "new" people to the series. Considering most people like myself grew up playing the FF series, I imagine newcomers would most likely mean adolescents.

[Geralt]

Bankai9212 の投稿を引用：

Never seen so much hate for Tidus I thought he was solid overall.

Tidus is bad. Squall is MORE bad. So bad I won't even make it grammatically correct just because bad has to be put into that description.

[Maverik770]

Bankai9212 の投稿を引用：

Never seen so much hate for Tidus I thought he was solid overall.

I think a lot of the issue with Tidus was the non stop whining for the first half of the game. And the English voice actor they got for him made that so much worse. I think Tidus' motivations are probably better than a lot of other FF characters and definitely not the worst. I just could not stand his whiny voice. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me. I certainly found him more tolerable with the original Japanese voice actor.

[Metadragon]

Maverik770 の投稿を引用：

I will catch a lot of flame for it but my least favorite character BY FAR is Tidus. God FFX was just ruined by Tidus and his constant crying. The voice actor they had for the English version did not help either. I will say he was much more tolerable with the original Japanese voice actor.

Vaan, Squall and Lightning are close 2nds for worst FF character. I actually found that I liked Noctis a lot more than I initially thought I was going to. :pixelprompto:

Your damn right you will catch hell for it.

Tidus is probably THE most nuanced MC in the series. I mean the guy goes from arrogant Blitzball player to happy go lucky, goofy and confused tourist to heartbroken and betrayed when his "friends" kept him ignorant to reserved and determined when he decides to be the vessal for the final summon.

Certainly better than Cloud's range of emotions. You know those grand emotions we call mild disgust and detached emo. lol.

Hell Vaan gets a lot of ♥♥♥♥ too but he actually grows as a person too. And its his changes that spur Ashe's changes and ultimately frees the world. But did you know that originally Basch was supposed to be the MC? You were originally supposed to start the epilogue where Reks gets stabbed by Noah but then you get imprisoned and its shows Vayne's coronation and you get freed from that prison by Balthier and Fran. But SE decided that Japanese players wouldn't "go for" and older MC and so wrote in Vaan and Penelo so they could arguably claim Vaan is the MC even though saide from the beginning Blathier and Basch and Ashe get the most screen time.

[Seraphita]

Tidus kinda feels "normal" to me. He's dumb but he's got emotions alright. We can almost feel familiar with his feelings. He tried to be stupid for Yuna and that's what made people cringe. (let's admit it, everyone else but Yuna also cringed) but that's what I like of him. He's not subtle. :P

[Chaos Residue]

Bigbazz の投稿を引用：

Your basis on what is well written seems more to be based on whether or not you like him and based on how strong he is as an individual. Like an example of an actually poorly written character would be someone who is one dimensional, lacking flaws, isn't relatable or realistic.

Let me fix that for you. An example of a poorly written character would be someone who is one-dimensional, lacking character flaws OR strengths (meaning they only have one or the other), and isn't relatable or realistic. Notctis fits in perfectly. He is one-dimensional the entire first 13 chapters of the game. He has no character strengths whatsoever. Instead he just broods and lashes out. He isn't relatable or realistic. Very few people would respond to the situation the way he did. Nothing in the game expounded on why he's the whiny, selfish person he grew up to be for the first 13 chapters. That is the definition of poor writing. Instead people are saying you have to watch a separate series to understand why he is the way he is. Again, POOR WRITING.

Bigbazz の投稿を引用：

Noctis isn't any of that...

See above.

Bigbazz の投稿を引用：

...he's quite capable but he's not ready, he is emotionally unstable and not dealing with the challenges of life very well and his friends are literally dragging him kicking through this ordeal, that's not a poorly written character.

That IS a poorly written character. They literally didn't have to write anything for him except "I'm sad" and "I'm not ready". For 13 chapters that's all he was. Most of the game he was like that. The difference between him and Squall is that you at least got to see what Squall was thinking. Heck, Final Fantasy X was voice acted but they still made a point to have Tidus narrate what he was thinking so you could at least know what's going on in his head. They did none of this for Noctis. So, again, extremely poor writing and character development.

Bigbazz の投稿を引用：

And like I said, 13 is the turnaround and in the time between 13 and the end of the game (which is considerable) he does finally come around and make good on his responsibilities, changes start to happen, which you will see.

I just played through Chapter 13. Again, the turnaround happens at the end of the chapter, and you get to hear him say he only put the ring on and took responsibility because he was left with no weapons or friends, and he had no choice. He literally says that he didn't have a choice.

Bigbazz の投稿を引用：

And to go back on my age timeline thing, the time period of the first part of the game is very short, the time period of the end part of the game is very long by comparison. If you wanna see poor character writing then look at the latest Star Wars trilogy and their mary sue brigade.

I'm talking about a video game. Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, and X all had character development from the beginning through the end of the game. You could see the gradual change through the game. Noctis didn't gradually change. In the end of Chapter 13 he was just suddenly different.

[Metadragon]

Zero の投稿を引用：

Tidus kinda feels "normal" to me. He's dumb but he's got emotions alright. We can almost feel familiar with his feelings. He tried to be stupid for Yuna and that's what made people cringe. (let's admit it, everyone else but Yuna also cringed) but that's what I like of him. He's not subtle. :P

Well he is "normal" in a way. He went from teenage sports star (granted not super normal) to being transported to Spira where they are stuck somewhere between renaissance europe and magic future technology. Its like if a Soccer or Football star in hgihschool gets slammed back to Post apocalyptic Earth with ren faire tech mixed with "ancient magic" technology.

So yeah. Is he technically the first Isekai protagonist in Final Fantasy?

Anyway he IS kind of a moron but this is shown to be a facade. I mean I think what does it is he has this melancholy narration at the beginning when they are in Zanarkand and then we see him act like a goofy idiot for half the game before he gets serious and people had trouble with the initial disconnect. They also resented the fact that they generally knew more than he did and were frustrated he could "figure it out"

I get it but I still the moron. I hated him too when I was a teenager but now I just enjoy watching him grow when i replay it because with experience i realize teenagers ARE idiots sometimes.

[Maverik770]

Metadragon の投稿を引用：

Maverik770 の投稿を引用：

I will catch a lot of flame for it but my least favorite character BY FAR is Tidus. God FFX was just ruined by Tidus and his constant crying. The voice actor they had for the English version did not help either. I will say he was much more tolerable with the original Japanese voice actor.

Vaan, Squall and Lightning are close 2nds for worst FF character. I actually found that I liked Noctis a lot more than I initially thought I was going to.

Your damn right you will catch hell for it.

Tidus is probably THE most nuanced MC in the series. I mean the guy goes from arrogant Blitzball player to happy go lucky, goofy and confused tourist to heartbroken and betrayed when his "friends" kept him ignorant to reserved and determined when he decides to be the vessal for the final summon.

Certainly better than Cloud's range of emotions. You know those grand emotions we call mild disgust and detached emo. lol.

Hell Vaan gets a lot of ♥♥♥♥ too but he actually grows as a person too. And its his changes that spur Ashe's changes and ultimately frees the world. But did you know that originally Basch was supposed to be the MC? You were originally supposed to start the epilogue where Reks gets stabbed by Noah but then you get imprisoned and its shows Vayne's coronation and you get freed from that prison by Balthier and Fran. But SE decided that Japanese players wouldn't "go for" and older MC and so wrote in Vaan and Penelo so they could arguably claim Vaan is the MC even though saide from the beginning Blathier and Basch and Ashe get the most screen time.

Tidus has a full range of emotions. Too full imo. Spends half the game whining and crying. The thing with Cloud's lack of emotion is that he was created that way on purpose. As I'm sure you're aware and many others have pointed out he had his memories and brain scrambled multiple times and was subjected to extremely intense genetic experiments. He was induced in mako comas twice for crying out loud. Cloud is the emobidment of a emotionally and mentally destroyed soldier and victim of extreme torture. PTSD to the 10th power. Anyone would be f'd up emotionally after going through all of that. And his character does grow and transform tremendously by the end of the game.

Again, my biggest issue with Tidus is probably more his English voice actor than anything. It was just so bad and grating. I didn't mind him nearly as much when I played the game years later with the original Japanese voice actor instead. But it was too late by then. I already detested Tidus from my first experience with him 17 years ago. If FFX had just been text based like all other FFs before it, I probably wouldn't have hated Tidus. Bad voice acting can absolutely ruin characters in RPGs.

I refuse to play FFXV with the English voice actors. They're god awful. I'd probably hate those characters too if I couldn't listen to them in their original Japanese voice acting.

[Chaos Residue]

Metadragon の投稿を引用：

I hated him too when I was a teenager but now I just enjoy watching him grow when i replay it because with experience i realize teenagers ARE idiots sometimes.

Pretty much this. I didn't like Final Fantasy X initially. When I replayed it a couple of years later though I enjoyed it. Since then it has become one of my favorite Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy, IX and Final Fantasy Tactics are the best Final Fantasy games (in my opinion).

[Seraphita]

Tidus has a bit more story to him than many other characters. A bit why I like him. I'd love to be the person thrown into a fantasy ish world and meet all of those people. Other characters don't really show their childhood or the reason why they are who they are. Squall is an exception...

[Bigbazz]

That IS a poorly written character.

No it's not a poorly written character, you seem to be confusing poorly written with not liking him or him having flaws.

[Metadragon]

Maverik770 の投稿を引用：

Metadragon の投稿を引用：

Your damn right you will catch hell for it.

Tidus is probably THE most nuanced MC in the series. I mean the guy goes from arrogant Blitzball player to happy go lucky, goofy and confused tourist to heartbroken and betrayed when his "friends" kept him ignorant to reserved and determined when he decides to be the vessal for the final summon.

Certainly better than Cloud's range of emotions. You know those grand emotions we call mild disgust and detached emo. lol.

Hell Vaan gets a lot of ♥♥♥♥ too but he actually grows as a person too. And its his changes that spur Ashe's changes and ultimately frees the world. But did you know that originally Basch was supposed to be the MC? You were originally supposed to start the epilogue where Reks gets stabbed by Noah but then you get imprisoned and its shows Vayne's coronation and you get freed from that prison by Balthier and Fran. But SE decided that Japanese players wouldn't "go for" and older MC and so wrote in Vaan and Penelo so they could arguably claim Vaan is the MC even though saide from the beginning Blathier and Basch and Ashe get the most screen time.

Tidus has a full range of emotions. Too full imo. Spends half the game whining and crying. The thing with Cloud's lack of emotion is that he was created that way on purpose. As I'm sure you're aware and many others have pointed out he had his memories and brain scrambled multiple times and was subjected to extremely intense genetic experiments. He was induced in mako comas twice for crying out loud. Cloud is the emobidment of a emotionally and mentally destroyed soldier and victim of extreme torture. Anyone would be f'd up emotionally after going through all of that. And his character does grow and transform tremendously by the end of the game.

Again, my biggest issue with Tidus is probably more his English voice actor than anything. It was just so bad and grating. I didn't mind him nearly as much when I played the game years later with the original Japanese voice actor instead. But it was too late by then I already detested Tidus from my first experience with him 17 years ago.

Yes a teenager who doesnt know what happened to him or why can be whiny. Characters arent supposed to be all good stereotypes.

So its not ok a for a distressed and confused teenager to whine but it IS ok for Cloud to be emotionless because he has confused memories (namely that he assumed Zack's identity).

Ok I guess. Im not saying Cloud's attitude isnt justified. I just saying its pretty weak and that Tidus' is also justified and somewhow its not ok. lol.

This is all opinions of course but I just dont udnerstand the disconnect people have with Tidus but let pass for Cloud (or Squall).

Lets see what else did you say. Cloud isnt a soldier. He was some teenager that wanted to be a SOLDIER which is different from being a rank and file soldier. SOLDIER are the Zack Fair's and Sephiroths. HE was just a kid really and then they decided to make him one and destroy his ego in the process and then zack rescues him and dies on the hill where Cloud then takes Zack's and Angeal's sword and assumes his memories that dis survive which were ones he shared with Zack or were told to him by Zack and filled in the blanks. Now I havernt played Crisis Core in like ten years so if i am wrong please correct me but thats the gist. So why is he emoptionless. If anything he should be as happy go lucky as Zack was. Also Tifa KNOWS Cloud but barely hints that she did until much later. She sees Cloud and does nothing... The writing has some holes which is why its not my favorite but yeah.

I liked Tidus' actor. I liked most of them actually. It could be nostalgia but I played the remake very recently and still liked it. To be fair I also kinda like FFVIIs voice cast too in Advent Children and Dirge of Cerberus.

[Chaos Residue]

Bigbazz の投稿を引用：

That IS a poorly written character.

No it's not a poorly written character, you seem to be confusing poorly written with not liking him or him having flaws.

Just pick and choose the parts of what I say that you want to argue. Doesn't matter that I backed up that statement with examples. Here, I'll fill out the rest of that for you:

Chaos Residue の投稿を引用：

That IS a poorly written character. They literally didn't have to write anything for him except "I'm sad" and "I'm not ready". For 13 chapters that's all he was. Most of the game he was like that. The difference between him and Squall is that you at least got to see what Squall was thinking. Heck, Final Fantasy X was voice acted but they still made a point to have Tidus narrate what he was thinking so you could at least know what's going on in his head. They did none of this for Noctis. So, again, extremely poor writing and character development.

[Metadragon]

Chaos Residue の投稿を引用：

Metadragon の投稿を引用：

I hated him too when I was a teenager but now I just enjoy watching him grow when i replay it because with experience i realize teenagers ARE idiots sometimes.

Pretty much this. I didn't like Final Fantasy X initially. When I replayed it a couple of years later though I enjoyed it. Since then it has become one of my favorite Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy, IX and Final Fantasy Tactics are the best Final Fantasy games (in my opinion).

yeah thank you. Its up there for favorite Final Fantasy too. I think on the whole I enjoyed 12 more and I like 15 too but 10 just has that special place, and im not afraid to admit that the ending of 10 gets me EVERY ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ TIME. Every time I end up crying just a little bit. Tidus fading through Yuna at the end

Then they ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ruined it with the audio drama/book. Tankfyully they walked back that stupidness. On the whole I like x-2 as well although some changes made were weird as hell. On the whole its a nostalgia trip for FFX and its ok. The 100% ending is the prize.

[RadioMars]

This Final Fantasy had the worst cast of characters. Everyone looked like they escaped The Sims and their dialogs had as much sense. Noctis is the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ king of this hair gel party

[Metadragon]

Bigbazz の投稿を引用：

That IS a poorly written character.

No it's not a poorly written character, you seem to be confusing poorly written with not liking him or him having flaws.

This is the advice to take the most to heart in all opinion based conversations about characters.