Isn't anyone got bothered with how bad is the combat?

[明星ヒマリ]

The combat is truly bad, everything from sound, to the camera, to directional moves working half the time. To how you're invincible when using items and when using team attacks, to how Noct can't double jump, or do a legit air juggle, or even pull himself up a ledge. Holding down the attack button causes him to sprint towards the nearest enemy rather than attacking in place, which is just as awkward as it sounds. Hit stun is inconsistent, often times enemies that can be staggered with regular sword slashes will tumble their way far from Noct, before the combo is even finished, causing you to have to run after them.
Aerial combat is worse than ground combat somehow. While air-dancing feels responsive, Noct will awkwardly warp to enemies in a split second, making him clip through them weirdly.
Elemental magic is just bombs, thats it. It really speaks for the devs when FF's wide variety of elemental magic is reduced to just a grenades.

Even the combat in this cheap spin-off game is a lot more interesting than FFXV.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/632350/Cyberdimension_Neptunia_4_Goddesses_Online___CYBER_DIMENSION_NEPTUNE__ONLINE/

[Doc]

Ricotta původně napsal:

Rick_Kickem původně napsal:

if you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and didn`t try magic+switching weapons+ariel combat+switching characters then yes you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ and combat is boring.

Damn those special type fairy degenerates "I dnD LIkE thE CoMBAT SO iT IS Suxxx for everyone AMMIRIGHT?!!?!?!"

Nice ad-hominem. Now, you have let out your rage for unable to discuss it properly and calmed down. Do you have anything useful to contribute here?

These are the FFXV Steam Forums, where sense unforunately isn't the only thing that flies out the window. Toxicity rules here.

[tyserius]

Ricotta původně napsal:

cheongvictor7 původně napsal:

Hmm... I suppose you've only tried the demo, yeah? I do agree with how the combat feels a little lackluster and I think it boils down to Noctis' moveset being very limited. I know the weapons make some difference, but it loses the typical FF touch where you have Skills, Techniques etc. The variety in combat is very limited. However, I wouldn't say it's 'easy' if you've only tried the demo. The majority of the difficulty in this game comes during the later chapters and end game when you actually fight stronger monsters via hunts / dungeons. Also, there is a little bit more strategy involved in combat if you're farming for materials as some only drop when certain monster parts are broken ala Monster Hunter. The difficulty in the game mainly comes from optional content.

Lol, if anything I can see how everything would be easy af especially after beating those night creatures that spawn in the night. And monster hunter? Hardly similiar, so far, there's no such thing as breaking monster's part for materials. It's just basic loot system, nothing more, nothing less.

Nope, the night creatures are the least of the worries. And there is a system of breaking monster parts for materials if you've actually played the full game. Certain parts can only be obtained if you break the horns and such. As for MH, the chance to get some materials are higher if you break certain parts and possibly outright unobtainable if you do not have the investigation quests for them either. Not to say I disagree that combat is easy, but that's only because you've tried the demo. About the combat being bad, I wouldn't say it's bad but it's just decent at best. I agree with the lack of magic variety and how lackluster the system is compared to previous FFs but in no way is the combat terrible as the Ascension system does improve some aspects quite significantly.

But personally, it just feels like Square tried to make it more similar to a Kingdom Hearts style of combat but it didn't work out really well...

[tyserius]

Blanc původně napsal:

cheongvictor7 původně napsal:

Hmm... I suppose you've only tried the demo, yeah? I do agree with how the combat feels a little lackluster and I think it boils down to Noctis' moveset being very limited. I know the weapons make some difference, but it loses the typical FF touch where you have Skills, Techniques etc. The variety in combat is very limited. However, I wouldn't say it's 'easy' if you've only tried the demo. The majority of the difficulty in this game comes during the later chapters and end game when you actually fight stronger monsters via hunts / dungeons. Also, there is a little bit more strategy involved in combat if you're farming for materials as some only drop when certain monster parts are broken ala Monster Hunter. The difficulty in the game mainly comes from optional content.

Anyone who says the demo is easy hasn't found the Bandersnatch.

It really shouldn't surprise anyone that most enemies around your level aren't going to be crazy hard.

But the really big high level ones like daemons, the Bandersnatch, the large Reapertail...

Try beating those guys without abusing your item supply.

Agreed! I made it a challenge to all my friends to try Bandersnatch right as they can move away from Hammerhead. And as expected they didn't fare so well considering it's their first time :) I even made it a point to them that they cannot level up and cannot use food. Just like how I attempted it when I first started as soon as I learned of its existence :D

Although, I kinda forgot where to find the large Reapertail (Reaperking, I believe?) so I didn't get them to try it :P

[Kira]

duEprocEss původně napsal:

Carefull původně napsal:

I tried the demo, and I did not like the combat. Warp moves are cool. But I really dislike it when Camera does not stay over the shoulder (every Asian game I have tried, it seems), and the whole “pause and study the resistances, the scroll through the extensive weapon collection” to be immersion breaking. I prefer the videogames that hide the “guts” better.

Overall, I am not sure what I have expected from a FF game, as I have never played one before, but I was underwhelmed by the demo.

I really don't understand how you could criticize the pausing feature. It is off by default, which means you willingly and knowingly turned on the pause feature, which you don't have to use.... yet here we are.

The tutorial said I must put it on, so I assumed without it, I will just be endlessly nixed because I am not switching weapons accordingly.

Even with this concern partially out of the way, camera troubles, hanging around and that scroll-through system was not my favorite.

If I did like the rest the game had to offer, I would have muddled through it, obviously. But I was overall just not fond of setting, characters, art, voice and music.

I dunno, FF is a huge franchise, so I expected something out of this world to blow me away. It was not.

[tyserius]

Carefull původně napsal:

duEprocEss původně napsal:

I really don't understand how you could criticize the pausing feature. It is off by default, which means you willingly and knowingly turned on the pause feature, which you don't have to use.... yet here we are.

The tutorial said I must put it on, so I assumed without it, I will just be endlessly nixed because I am not switching weapons accordingly.

Even with this concern partially out of the way, camera troubles, hanging around and that scroll-through system was not my favorite.

If I did like the rest of the game, I would have muddled through it, obviously.

I recommend you playing with Active Mode instead of Wait Mode. It makes a whole lot of difference.

[Kira]

cheongvictor7 původně napsal:

Carefull původně napsal:

The tutorial said I must put it on, so I assumed without it, I will just be endlessly nixed because I am not switching weapons accordingly.

Even with this concern partially out of the way, camera troubles, hanging around and that scroll-through system was not my favorite.

If I did like the rest of the game, I would have muddled through it, obviously.

I recommend you playing with Active Mode instead of Wait Mode. It makes a whole lot of difference.

Thanks, I would have, but as I noted above, I am just not feeling it. I liked Blade and Soul and Dynasty Warriors way more, so I will just pass on FF franchise.

[Mist]

Neptunia : One combo/character. No punch at all when hitting. Can spam the guard button and be actually immortal. Skills are ♥♥♥♥ and don't link well together.

Sure.

FF15 combat system is far from being great, but it gets the job done (and has more to it than peopple give). The same can't be said about Neptunia.

What's the issue with FF15? let's see :

"Hold dodge and you're immortal" : Like 99% of the games with a guard system?
It takes away MP the same way it would take stamania in other games. Yeah, you don't need the MP to land basic attack, but the warp strike which is by far the most broken attack you can do for a huge part of the game needs it, so it is still a trade off to consider.
Yeah, it guards everything around you but it's needed due to how many time you fight against mobs or really fast and agile enemies.
Bigger monsters all have moves that will hit through your auto dodge and require the player to dodge themself by rolling or blinking away.
Can get a skill that allow to cancel mana cost if you do perfect dodges. Timing is generous but not enough that you don't feel involve in the combat.

"Parry is too easy." Yes, and that's why you can only parry so many moves.


"Hold attack, boring" . Yeah, you can. The same way you can mash one button in most beat'em all. Is mashing more skilled than holding? Don't worry, you can mash as well.

"There's only one combo". Wrong, each weapon have combos that depend on the direction you hold on your stick, if any. Don't complain if you're not smart enough to try.


"Magic is not interesting". Agreed.


"You can only play as Noctis", no, that is no longer the case.

[[sMil3]]

Mist původně napsal:

Neptunia : One combo/character. No punch at all when hitting. Can spam the guard button and be actually immortal. Skills are ♥♥♥♥ and don't link well together.

Sure.

FF15 combat system is far from being great, but it gets the job done (and has more to it than peopple give).

If by "gets the job done" you mean "0 challenge", sure...

[Zecele]

I like the combat reminds me a bit of Dark Souls.

[swankyelk]

Nice opinion. I happen to like the combat a lot. See, my opinion is right.

[Ceriss]

I really love Nep games and I'm enjoying Cyberdimension don't get me wrong but the combat isn't better.

It's very MMO style even, you go up to the monster and spam your skills until it's dead with a perfect guard here and there.

It's not as tactical as FFXV'S combat.

Plus you can break everything with skill cancelling in Cyber Nep.

Nep has a long way to go in terms of game play, its fun characters is where it shines the most.

But hey, they'll get it down eventually, perfect guarding and countering is a nice addition, next action spinoff just needs to be less stiff.

[Donoghu]

Zecele původně napsal:

I like the combat reminds me a bit of Dark Souls.

In my case, it reminds me of the early stage of the Clock-Action genre.

What's the Clock-Action genre?
It's a fusion between action game where you position yourself and attack in real-time and the round-based game where the enemy (or/and you) only does a specific amount of moves within a specific amount of time.

You could also call it "Action RPG with cooldowns" and it wouldn't be far fetched.

This has been present in games like Radiata Story, most of the latest "Tales of" for quite a while, older PS1 games like Vagrant Story (which was made by Square Soft).

In the case of FF15, the fact that this is happening in a seamless environment (open world at that) without visible borders and the fact that there's an huge disparity between short and long cooldown gives it a initial feel of a button smasher action RPG... while it's totally not a button smasher action RPG.

For example, the fact that you just have to hold a button to keep attacking is something that requires a bit of getting used to. For the first few hours, even after completing the tutorial and knowing that I just got to hold the button, my reflex always brought me to spam press the attack button by mistakes.

The fact that you can evade "any" attacks (in the Main story) by holding the block/evade with the exception of special attacks and magics is also something that requires a bit of getting used to. The Demon/Dark Soul player in me tend to make me time my evasion too much and, due to the nature of the game concerning changing action (which has a transition time), initially, I wasn't able to evade things because I had difficulty adjusting my muscle memory from "press evade at the last second" to "Press evade a couple of secs ahead as you may take up to 2 secs to start evading and that the monster display a specific behavior before attacking".

Now, the way I play is that I hold Evasion all the time and, after an enemy has attacked, I'm holding attack for a while until the hits stop staggering the enemy and then switch back to evasion. No need to keep switching weapons (like in Devil May Cry) or smashing buttons (like Demon/Dark Soul) or trying to hit everything before everything tries to hit you (like in the Warriors series).

The game only feel like DMC or D. Soul when you're way above the enemies' strength as, at that point, you switch between attack and block a lot more often (as you switch target as often).

Still, the way you switch between defense and offense is actually quite similar to older RPG from Square Enix / Square Soft. When the enemies plan a normal attack, they will do something simple and you might not have to care that much... but when they start doing something "strong", they will change (something will illuminate or they will do something strange.)

The 2 first enemies that makes this clear as day are :
Coeurls and Iron Giants since you start meeting those when you're way under the scope of their level.

The only part of the game that I hardly loathe about is the companions' AI.
That, alone, is enough to make you hate the combat system at some points. They are, most of the time, meat shields while you grind your target to avoid you getting pounded from all sides. When you fight against something that doesn't dies in 2-3 hits (with good equipment), they will start dying left and right because they don't evade nor plan like you (with an human brain) do or, at least, should be doing.

This can be clearly seen when you play Comrades where you fight against stuff that would crush you in the Main Game with a team of 2 players as 2 players survive and plan together while 1 player and 3 Ais... mostly is like 2 separate team which only interact when something is happening.

You keep healing/reviving the AIs during an important fight because you need those meat shield who get grinded at by the small stuff you don't want in your way as you fight the big stuff and that create the reluctant feeling that your babysitting the AIs (which, ironically, is supposed to be reverse in the setting/story.)

[PlevisVesel]

The only problem I have with the combat is that the screen is too busy. Half the time I can't see the enemies because of the foliage and the other half because of the effects. I hope there are options to cut the foliage entirely and make the effects less flashy.
Also I can't tell when an enemy is attacking me or just shuffling about which makes dodging a bit tricky.

[明星ヒマリ]

I didn't say 4GO is good though, it has many problems like broken hit boxes, I-frames not properly implemented, reused assets everywhere, and basic standard skills is a hell lot more useful than advanced one because it is nore flexible to use. But the thing about it is that despite being a cheap spin-off game that is very obvious they aren't putting enough effort to made it, it is by far a lot more polished than FFXV, and what's even more insulting is that FFXV is a triple A game, this is very heartrending for me.

[Ceriss]

Ricotta původně napsal:

I didn't say 4GO is good though, it has many problems like broken hit boxes, I-frames not properly implemented, reused assets everywhere, and basic standard skills is a hell lot more useful than advanced one because it is nore flexible to use. But the thing about it is that despite being a cheap spin-off game that is very obvious they aren't putting enough effort to made it, it is by far a lot more polished than FFXV, and what's even more insulting is that FFXV is a triple A game, this is very heartrending for me.

MP still doesn't work on 4G0 right now.

Idk about polished. You can't cancel attack animations with evade for example so the evasion button is essentially useless in 4GO.

Then the hitboxes as you said, that's actually a pretty annoying problem and it's the opposite of polish.

Like I said, I love Nep and I love 4GO but I don't think it's more polished per say.

It's impressive for a Nep title and I think they're going in the right direction though.