How to improve the boost formula

[mokyiyun]

I see that there is already a thread about the adventure formula, so I want to start another to discuss the boost formula. If Sonic Team is going to make another game using the boost formula, how do we want it to look like? Here are my thoughts:

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1. Other playable characters

First of all, in 3D Sonic games, Sonic had been the only playable character since Unleashed, until now we have Shadow and the avatar. So the first thing to think about expanding the boost gameplay would be to introduce other playable characters.

We can notice that Shadow and the avatar actually plays almost exactly the same as Modern Sonic. What about it? Well, recall from the old genesis days that Tails and Knucles actually play almost exactly the same as Sonic as well. Take away a little speed, take away the elemental shield abilities, add the ability to fly, then you have Tails. Add the ability to glide and climb walls, then you have Knuckles. From this point of view, I am good with the fact that the avatar plays almost exactly the same as Modern Sonic.

Applying the same logic, if you have all the skills with Modern Sonic, take away the homing attack and the boost, and replace the boost gate with a fly gate (refills over time perhaps), then you basically have a new gameplay style for Tails. Perhaps also give Tails some gadgets to use. Replace the boost gate with a power gate (refills with rings or something like that) and design some wide-area powerful attacks, then you basically have a new gameplay style for Knuckles. Also give him the ability to glide and climb walls like in the Adventure series. Put some blocks and gates in the stages that only Knucles can destroy. You can also occasionally have other playable DLC characters like we had Shadow this time.

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2. Not enough room for exploration

Many people think that the boost gameplay makes the stages too linear. I think the situation has already improved a lot from Unleashed to Generations. In Generations, besides having separated alternative pathways, there were very wide pathways which have 3D platforming elements, and also tons of higher and lower paths. I think Forces did not do a job as good as Generations, but the stage designs were still fairly decent. So, I would say that keeping the stage design direction from Generations would be a good choice.

I have mentioned my views on introduction of other playable characters above. If it is done, there will be a change in the stages. Recall again from the old genesis days that all characters play through the same stages, but you want to play through each of the stage with each character because the different abilities allow you to reach different areas of the stages. Mania captured this idea perfectly. Forces also captured some of it - you can use different wisp abilities to kind of progress through the stages differently. (Freedom Planet also captured this idea and was very successful.) Now my thought is this: There should be areas that can only be reached by Tails (such as by flying or using gadgets) and areas that can only be reached by Knuckles (such as by destroying certain walls). In these areas, there can be more room for slower-paced platforming and exploration.

In recent games, there are many areas with long straight paths for Sonic to boost through. So, how to cater with Tails and Knucles in those areas? First of all, Tails and Knucles should not be too slow, and they were fairly fast in the Adventure series. With that in mind, smashing large chunks of enemies with Knucles while running could potentially be a lot of fun. As for Tails - he has got jetboards and planes and rockets, right?

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3. 2D perspective

The 2D perspective for Modern Sonic was introduced since Unleashed. Since now we have Mania, many doubt if we still need to have 2D sections for Modern Sonic. I personally am OK with it and I had a good time with Colours. I also appreciate the new attempt of horizontal 3D sections in Forces. But I do tend to want a game in full 3D perspective.

Speaking of 2D gameplay, please don't bring back Classic Sonic again. I don't hate playing as Classic Sonic in Generations and Forces. Only that we already had Sonic 4 and Mania for genesis-like gameplay, so there is not much point of having Classic Sonic in a Modern Sonic game in the future. It was a good time, but bringing him back again and again would be too much. One more last fist bump, then please let the two Sonic's live in two separate worlds. Please also don't reuse Green Hill and Chemical Plant again and again. I love the wide variety of stages in Unleashed, Colours and Lost World. The new stages in Mania and Sonic 4 Ep 2 were also nice to me. Please be a little more confident in designing new stages.

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4. Power-ups

In the genesis games, power-ups were available in the form of speed shoes, invincivility and elemental shields. In more recent games, power-ups were mostly available in the form of wisps. In Generations we also had a skill shop. I think it would be a good idea to keep them. They should not be mandatory for progressing through the stages, but can be used to reach new areas or provide extra firepower.

(How to explain the existence of the wisps you ask? I have given up understanding stories in Sonic games as a continum. Before I played Forces, I was actually guessing that the story of Forces was "different previous Sonic games belong to different dimensions and Infinite brought these dimensions all together". Turns out that it was not. Guess this can't be fixed now.)

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5. Other thoughts

Sonic Team doesn't seem to have the intention to make another adventure-style game. Well, in Sonic Mania we had a bonus option called "Sonic Ability" where you have "Mania", "CD" and "3 & Knuckles" to choose from. Maybe also make an unlockable option which let you change "boost" to "spindash"? I bet many people (including me) will love it.

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So, these are my thoughts. What do you guys think?

[mdesaleah]

Either make it full 3D, or make the 2d sections closer to Unleashed and less like Colors. They felt more like Sonic Rush in Unleashed which is more fun. Anyone commenting here can also check the Adventure post I made, any opinion welcome

[Noodlesocks]

Less automation. No mid level cutscenes, grind rails and linear boost sections shouldn't be used as level filler. They should only be quick transitions between sections of levels or for shortcuts.

More 3D platforming with good camera angles so it's not all just boosting and "enemies drop from the sky" arenas.

Enemies that don't just stand there waiting to be boosted through

Multiple pathways in both 2D and 3D sections

Other characters with their own abilities. Same style of gameplay like the classics but with different abilities. Perhaps even different pathways or different levels all together

Less bottomless pits. Especially during precission platforming sections.

No Classic sonic. It was a novelty for Generations with it being the anniversary game but the novelty ended with that game. Keep Classic sonic to games like Mania and keep focus of the main series games on modern sonic style gameplay.

[mdesaleah]

No more wisps. Levels closer to Generations Seaside Hill, and less like most of Colors.

[Cheese]

I don't have much to suggest. I feel like Unleashed more or less nailed it first try. Just cut out some of the things like long quickstep sections where enemies fly at Sonic speed and occasionally shoot at you or extended rail switching sections, remove all 2D because I do not care for it, and keep the changes to the boost that Forces brought to the table (not losing boost in air, boost initiation maintaining some vertical momentum).

I'd prefer more open areas and more actual platforming in a 3D Sonic game, but frankly I do not feel the boost mechanics are particularly suited to such things, at least not without significant changes which I would not know how to approach.
The Unleashed super-fast, throw-a-different-simple-set-piece-at-you-every-three-seconds style of level design fits the boost mechanics best, I think.

Originally posted by Noodlesocks:

Less automation. No mid level cutscenes, grind rails and linear boost sections shouldn't be used as level filler. They should only be quick transitions between sections of levels or for shortcuts.

I miss how rails were used in SA2, where they didn't somehow propel you forward at a set speed magically, used physics, and were often totally optional and sometimes even somewhat hidden.
Wish they would go back to that, or take inspiration from games like Tony Hawks Pro Skater or SSX for rail use.
As it is, apparently the only thing they can think to do with rails is have you press left or right to switch between parallel rails over a bottomless pit, which is just so damn boring.

Less bottomless pits. Especially during precission platforming sections.

That's a '3D Sonic as a whole' issue. Most levels feel like a string of floating platforms over a gigantic pit.
Only the first Sonic Adventure really avoids this much.

[Gnidex]

I would remove sliding completely and replace it with rolling, which would gain speed downhill, as well as use spin dash when boost meter is empty.
I would use Generations as the basis for controls, "drifting forwards" would result in rolling. That alone would allow to gain speed by using more than boosting.
I would also add half-pipes, which would allow to abuse rolling to do crazy things.

If I was at Sonic Team, I would also suggest to create a level generator to streamline the production of levels. That generator would create multiple paths with divergence points based on speed, reaction time, angle after turning and other factors like that. After generating, they would be improved by hand. The biggest problem of boost games is length and it could allow them to create multiple acts faster.

[RocketPotatoL62]

They should just take what sonic rush did and bring it to 3D, the aerial abilities in that game would be so fun to use in 3D.

[LittleShoes]

i just really want them to focus on modern sonic and to stop adding classic sonic to all of their games, increasing the length of all the levels would be good aswell. and if they INSIST on putting classic sonic into a modern sonic game then take fking notes from the people who made sonic mania...or better yet have THEM make those levels.