This stupid NexusMods debate is useless...

[Kerry]

It's common knowledge that once you make a mod public, control of that mod is handed over to whatever library you chose to use.

Whether that's on the Steam Workshop or any of the various mod library websites out there, as soon as you publish a mod it's no longer yours.

Once that happens you effectively lose control as you've transferred it to whatever site you chose to use, whether that's the Steam Workshop, ModDB, NexusMods, or even github.

Once a mod goes public, you no longer have control over it. That's established fact. So the people who have withdrawn their mods from places like NexusMods, your dispute is not worth the time or the energy spent on it: It's not going to change anything.

Think of any mod library website as like a public library. Once a book or CD or other item gets added to a library, that book is there forever. The author has no control over what that library does to that book. People can borrow that book and read it, but under no circumstances can the author dictate what the library does to that book.

Hell, the library can even modify their copy of the book if they want and the author can do nothing to stop them.

Same with mods. Once published, you cede all control to the mod library you submitted to. You no longer have control over any aspect of that mod, from the creative aspect to the functional aspect or even the custodial aspect.

You no longer have any rights to anything you've created once it goes published.

So the only way you'll get the kind of control you want for your mod is if you completely withdraw your mod from all public databases and only distribute the things the old fashioned way, by putting it on a CD and shipping it out.

And even then there's not going to be any way to stop people from doing what they want with you mod.

So the only way to have any sort of control over your mod is to withdraw it from public use and make it so that ONLY the author can use it.

[Boltergeist]

Gotcha, never again release any modding or data outside the closed circle of enthusiastic non-toxic fans

Brb gotta delete the CAB from github

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Boltergeist:

Gotcha, never again release any modding or data outside the closed circle of enthusiastic non-toxic fans

Brb gotta delete the CAB from github

I'm actually one of those enthusiastic non-toxic fans. My point is, you are only limiting the growth and use of your mods through this debate. You're not hurting NexusMods, your protest is going to be ineffectual.

I would love, love, LOVE to play certain games modded. But because of this stupid dispute modders have with sites like NexusMods, I can't.

If you want anyone aside from the mod creators to actually use your mod, then you gotta submit it to some kind of mod library - and in doing so you cede control to them.

So you have a choice: Release your mod so people can play it, or don't ever release anything, keep it all to yourself and never have the satisfaction of a wide-ranging audience of people willing to play your mod.

The only people modders are hurting by withdrawing their mods from Nexus is themselves.

[Boltergeist]

And now even changing the title from "modders are stupid"

If you would be, you wouldnt be so entitled to anyones free time and work

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Boltergeist:

And now even changing the title from "modders are stupid"

If you would be, you wouldnt be so entitled to anyones free time and work

Nobody's entitled to other people's free time and work. However, once you publish your mod, it's no longer yours.

That's just the facts Jack.

Also I changed the title because the prior one was insulting and just asking for this thread to be locked. That was not my intention.

[Werecat101]

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

Originally posted by Boltergeist:

And now even changing the title from "modders are stupid"

If you would be, you wouldnt be so entitled to anyones free time and work

Nobody's entitled to other people's free time and work. However, once you publish your mod, it's no longer yours.

That's just the facts Jack.

Also I changed the title because the prior one was insulting and just asking for this thread to be locked. That was not my intention.

Using your logic games are no longer the IP of games company's when you buy them. the mod depending on the Licenses involved in any coded parts of the mod dictate legal situations in the same way as any software.

After all you download the programs freeware, payware or mod and have the files on your local PC.

The Nexus is just a data site it holds and acts as a distribution point no change of licencing takes place,, just because a piece of software is on a machine owned by you it does not give you additional rights over that already allowed by the owner.

[pete]

OP can be a bit difficult
https://steamcommunity.com/app/637090/discussions/3/5595176692465849414/

[Jamie Wolf]

This is just not correct.

Depending on the game, mod authors can and in a fair number of cases do, hold copyright on their works, which comes with some various forms of legal protections. Your analogy of a book library is also incorrect. If a library makes changes to an author's books, the author would have cause to persue legal action.

A better analogy for nexus would be a package manager like npm, pypy similar and those platforms allow people to remove their works at any time, without warning.

As for nexus, they made their bed and they can now lay in it.

As for stating that it hurts no one but the author, clearly that's not true, you are here complaining right now that things are no longer available on nexus, so clearly it has effected others. Whether or not it hurts nexus is irrelevant, we simply no longer wish to work with them since they have no regard for authors other than to be content producing minions who should bow to their every whim. I'd also push back that our move has hurt us authors, how can it? I could care less if someone does or doesn't download my work, I shared it for anyone interested in my interests and vision, not to get anything out of it.

[MortVent]

IF you are not entitled to someone's work, why are you throwing a tantrum about them not releasing it?

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Jamie Wolf:

This is just not correct.

Depending on the game, mod authors can and in a fair number of cases do, hold copyright on their works, which comes with some various forms of legal protections. Your analogy of a book library is also incorrect. If a library makes changes to an author's books, the author would have cause to persue legal action.

A better analogy for nexus would be a package manager like npm, pypy similar and those platforms allow people to remove their works at any time, without warning.

As for nexus, they made their bed and they can now lay in it.

As for stating that it hurts no one but the author, clearly that's not true, you are here complaining right now that things are no longer available on nexus, so clearly it has effected others. Whether or not it hurts nexus is irrelevant, we simply no longer wish to work with them since they have no regard for authors other than to be content producing minions who should bow to their every whim. I'd also push back that our move has hurt us authors, how can it? I could care less if someone does or doesn't download my work, I shared it for anyone interested in my interests and vision, not to get anything out of it.

That is untrue. Once you put your mod on a site, and I mean ANY site, you forfeit any and all rights to how they distribute it.

Additionally it hurts the authors by limiting the number of people who can download it. I don't have Discord, and your files including the CAB are locked behind a Discord.

I will never use Discord again so the number of people who can share in your interests and vision has already dropped by one. Also you've lost a member of the modding community since as you yourself have stated, without your work no mods can be made.

I personally will be posting my content when it comes out, on any and all sites I can because unlike you, I want to get my work out there so it is visible.

I want to share my stuff for anyone interested in my interest and vision, and the ONLY way I can do that is by sharing it on as many sites as possible, INCLUDING NexusMods.

You claimed that you shared your work for anyone interested in your interests and vision and yet you decline to share your work with the general public.

That basically means you made a false claim, since your work is no longer shared with the world, only a limited number of people.

Oh, also, restricting your mod to a limited number of people is against the Steam Subscriber Agreement. You're required to share your mods publicly to remain on Steam.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by MortVent:

IF you are not entitled to someone's work, why are you throwing a tantrum about them not releasing it?

Because it hurts LOTS of others. Take Mr. Wolf's mods, for example.

The entire modding community depends on his work so locking it away behind the "Mods in Exile" program is harmful to the rest of the modding community.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Werecat101:

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

Nobody's entitled to other people's free time and work. However, once you publish your mod, it's no longer yours.

That's just the facts Jack.

Also I changed the title because the prior one was insulting and just asking for this thread to be locked. That was not my intention.

Using your logic games are no longer the IP of games company's when you buy them. the mod depending on the Licenses involved in any coded parts of the mod dictate legal situations in the same way as any software.

After all you download the programs freeware, payware or mod and have the files on your local PC.

The Nexus is just a data site it holds and acts as a distribution point no change of licencing takes place,, just because a piece of software is on a machine owned by you it does not give you additional rights over that already allowed by the owner.

That is untrue. Once you put your mod or anything else on a distribution site, and I mean ANY distribution site, whether that's Nexus or modDB or even the Steam Workshop, you forfeit any and all rights to how they distribute it.

[Jamie Wolf]

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

Originally posted by Werecat101:

Using your logic games are no longer the IP of games company's when you buy them. the mod depending on the Licenses involved in any coded parts of the mod dictate legal situations in the same way as any software.

After all you download the programs freeware, payware or mod and have the files on your local PC.

The Nexus is just a data site it holds and acts as a distribution point no change of licencing takes place,, just because a piece of software is on a machine owned by you it does not give you additional rights over that already allowed by the owner.

That is untrue. Once you put your mod or anything else on a distribution site, and I mean ANY distribution site, whether that's Nexus or modDB or even the Steam Workshop, you forfeit any and all rights to how they distribute it.

Incorrect, by that logic the moment a company publishes a game they lose all say in how it's distributed, which is clearly untrue given that they can and do remove games from distribution platforms, why would mods or any other software be any different

[Werecat101]

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

Originally posted by Werecat101:

Using your logic games are no longer the IP of games company's when you buy them. the mod depending on the Licenses involved in any coded parts of the mod dictate legal situations in the same way as any software.

After all you download the programs freeware, payware or mod and have the files on your local PC.

The Nexus is just a data site it holds and acts as a distribution point no change of licencing takes place,, just because a piece of software is on a machine owned by you it does not give you additional rights over that already allowed by the owner.

That is untrue. Once you put your mod or anything else on a distribution site, and I mean ANY distribution site, whether that's Nexus or modDB or even the Steam Workshop, you forfeit any and all rights to how they distribute it.

So you don't know the differences between the different license types, what an MIT , GPL cc0.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Jamie Wolf:

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

That is untrue. Once you put your mod or anything else on a distribution site, and I mean ANY distribution site, whether that's Nexus or modDB or even the Steam Workshop, you forfeit any and all rights to how they distribute it.

Incorrect, by that logic the moment a company publishes a game they lose all say in how it's distributed, which is clearly untrue given that they can and do remove games from distribution platforms, why would mods or any other software be any different

Technically this is true. They have to go through a LOT of hassle to get a game removed, they have to provide reasons and other things and they have to agree to a Terms of Service in order to publish games on sites like Steam anyway.

Also, the key difference between a game developer and and a modder is they have to pay to get their games distributed. Therefore if they want to forfeit the money they paid and any further profits by pulling the plug,

If you want the same rights as a game developer, you're more than welcome to pay Steam's distribution fee.

[Kerry]

Originally posted by Werecat101:

Originally posted by Kerry Freeman:

That is untrue. Once you put your mod or anything else on a distribution site, and I mean ANY distribution site, whether that's Nexus or modDB or even the Steam Workshop, you forfeit any and all rights to how they distribute it.

So you don't know the differences between the different license types, what an MIT , GPL cc0.

Irrelevant. Again, if you want the same rights as a game developer you're more than welcome to pay the distribution fee.