Are PPCs good?

[mrtree]

I ask because up until recently, I would have answered that they are not, and I avoided them in favor of ER medium lasers, ultra AC-5s, missiles, etc. Like an AC-20 they can pack a punch, but so often they just miss, and there you are having invested so much loadout tonnage on a pass-fail system.

But because of my poor regard for them, I decided to try a challenge with my current career: a PPC challenge. Basically, the rule is that my mechs can only use PPCs (and ER versions) as well as support weapons (flamers, MGs, small pulse, tag, those kinds of things). I figured the support weapons are necessary just to get started, because not all mechs can wield PPCs, nor will I have enough in my inventory.

My commander's call sign is PinPriCk, and I decided to make her a knife-fighter specialist. I'm playing BTA-3062 mod. She's in a tricked-out Kit Fox (30 ton clan omnimech) that has 8 MG and 2 MG Arrays, so basically like 14 MG that can all be dialed up to shoot 3X mode. With a Battlelord secondary skill, she can get on your six then spew bullets at increased damage like there's no tomorrow, and I've found her to be something of a Vehicle Eraser Button too.

But I'm not here to talk about machine guns! The rest of the lance has pilots that are all trained to be Energy Masters for better accuracy, and most of the mechs have energy targeting computers. Thus, I'm getting frequent 75% or better to-hits, and am not missing shots as much. I don't feel bad at all driving BlackJacks that only have a pair of PPCs (or ER PPCs maybe) as armament. I've got targeting computers that enable me to pick my precise shots, i.e. go for head shots, and with the Energy Master adding some percentage to the damage, even basic PPCs have a chance to kill a cockpit.

Long story short, I think I might be starting to like PPCs.

The odd thing is that I started over on the side of the map where the clans are camped out, and so my salvage has been mostly clan ER PPCs rather than inner sphere basic PPCs. This poses a challenge just in terms of the heat, which is almost double in the clan ER! As I come across them, I am "upgrading" my mechs with IS PPCs, trading out a clan ER and a heat sink for and IS PPC, then figuring out what to do with the extra tonnage that all those other heat sinks represent. After each mission, I don't take salvage of any other weapon systems, I sell right away to keep missiles and ballistics and such out of my inventory.

Anybody else have some kind of challenge mode like this that you've done or contemplated?

[revenantsknight]

To the title question, I'd say PPCs aren't good in a relative sense, but they're good enough in an absolute sense to beat the game. This is true even in vanilla for the campaign - I note you're playing modded, which sounds potentially better for this challenge given Energy Master (dunno what that is but I think I get the gist) and clan gear. YMMV in other mods, of course.

I haven't tried all PPCs but I have played a 'Mech surgery strategy that aimed to get as many heavy/assault kills as pilot kills with only head, CT and one leg remaining (or a headcap at CT and one leg.) That required half my lance to be 'Mechs that would have been suboptimal by the usual standard: a LRM boat that maximized stability damage over damage, and a MAD-2R with 5 different types of energy weapons to calibrate damage output precisely. Not that far off of what's considered good in vanilla, but I did spend a lot of time in combat not taking easy kills and so had to deal with more incoming damage.

[OwlRaider]

Don't know about mods but in vanilla PPCs aren't particularly good but the Snub PPCs are actually pretty decent. Especially on energy bonus damage mechs like the Warhammer and/or the energy TTS. Or you know, on something like Atlas 2 where you're more limited by slots than weight/heat. Still even the Snub PPCs run extremely hot that you can't just spam them, even on an Atlas 2(you have enough energy weapons for 3 of them IIRC but good luck doing so with a half decent overall loadout) with its automatic 60 cooling thanks to being LosTech, which actually says a lot about PPCs in general...

[McGrits]

In vanilla, the royal black knight with 2x +damage snub ppc and 2x -heat snub ppc plus all the double heatsinks and armor and even a TTS i think was lots of death to the opponents.

[red255]

pretty sure snub PPC are part of a DLC and not vanilla.

regardless PPC are good if you can manage the heat, like if you manage to get enough exchangers you can get -20% heat for 4 tons.

I made a unit once.

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198030240547/screenshot/1010438956535788682/

using exchangers you can use very big energy weapons. gets you more damage. this whole MEC is preposterously expensive. in C bills.

but I made it. and it was good.

[mrtree]

Cool Atlas, red255! That looks like a Thunderbolt with Marauder arms grafted on.

[Hark]

Best weapon class in BT/MW.

[puschit]

In an unmodded career/campaign they are okay/decent in the early stages because they wreck most of the mechs you'll face with few hits and because even a near-miss applies that emp-debuff. Since the AI's pilots are almost as incompetent as yours initially, that sensor impairing debuff means something. And the mechs you'll get like Vindicator and Panther can handle the heat. Later on ... not really. When you start to specialize your mechs, PPCs can't really compeat.

[Langkard]

Finding SLDF Royal Hawks (PXH-1B) on the Black Market and then equipping them with a Snub PPC++, a couple of ML++ (or even better Pulse ML's if you can find them) is eye opening. 2 of them can core assaults from behind using precision shot. With 4 jumps jets plus the vectored thrust units, your jump range is insane. You can bounce around the battlefield, getting behind mechs and taking them out. From the side, a Royal Hawk with Snub PPC, MLs and MGs can take out a heavy mech's entire side with one shot - arm and torso and leg. Hop over the other side next turn, wait for it to get back up and do the same to the other side. Pilot incap and good salvage from just 2 shots.

[New Moon On Monday]

Does the sensor impairment from multiple PPCs stack?

[Commisar Jon Fuklaw]

It might not be viable for BTA 3062 or RT, but Quad/Quint PPC loadouts are brutally effective in vanilla and BEX. This is especially true on Marauder/Marauder II chassis, which allows for both the option to split your shots for lighter targets and offers a whopping 35% headpop chance on called shots. Even SNPPCs (Snub-nosed PPC, or Snub PPC as it's called in this )are also good for head popping so long as you have damage-upgraded variants of them. However, the SNPPC's real power comes from its raw sandblasting potential, so you may well prefer to use those for coring/legging targets, as ++ SNPPC's do a whopping 125 base damage each, providing the solid foundation of a beatstick.

The standard MAD-3R chassis is a bottom of the Quad PPC-viable weight range and will require weight-upgraded PPCs/ERPPCs or at least a pair of cERPPCs/SNPPCs to pack in sufficient cooling and at least sufficient armor. If that's a problem, there's the AWS-8Q (or any of its variants), or any other energy-heavy Assault chassis, all of which are all more durable and cooler than the MAD-3R/MAD-2R. However, only the MAD-5A (and variants, all only in mods) has both the Lance Command Module and the weight to keep four, five, or even SIX PPC's cool-ish.

[mrtree]

Earlier today I salvaged a Night Gyr (75 ton clan mech, so comparable to MAD-3R) and was able to outfit it with four regular PPCs and adequate heat sinks.

[Azure]

As long as you can keep them cool they are reasonable. For the first half of my Current game my Scout Mech was a Hollander with a Pair of Snubs and i have made heavy use of Light PPCs as backup weapons but havent really used the bigger ones much yet. ~ ER Large and Large Pulse lasers in heavy use instead.

[Alwyn]

Originally posted by New Moon On Monday:

Does the sensor impairment from multiple PPCs stack?

It does. You can see this the next time one of your mechs is hit by multiple PPCs in the same turn - in the following turn, it will have multiple small debuffs to accuracy.

If you hover your cursor over the accuracy percentage, you'll see a Sensors Impaired debuff (when your mech was hit by PPC fire in the previous turn): -1 for one PPC hit, -2 for two, and so on.

In this screenshot, my Marauder had been hit by two PPCs in the previous turn, causing a -2 Sensors Impaired debuff.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3015717613

[Bob of Mage]

The heat to damage ratio is the worst in the game. You need something like 12 single heat sinks to make a PPC heat neutral, and 15 for an ER PPC. 2 large lasers produce about as much heat yet deal a good bit more damage. Also 3 medium lasers can deal as much damage as an ER PPC++, yet produce 9 less heat, and weight 3 less tons.

The ER PPC due have the rare honour of being headchoppers if they are damage boosted variants.

[Commisar Jon Fuklaw]

Originally posted by Bob of Mage:

snip

Sure, the heat efficiency is bad when doing extreme boating, but suggesting you can get the same weight of fire from MLas or ERMLas is hilariously wrong. LLas and ERLLas are a closer comparison. LLas and ERLLas are slightly more accurate, allow for more heatsinks due to their lower weight, but still lack the per-weapon damage output of PPCs. Damage per ton is comparable, at least, which means that chassis with more energy slots can match a proper PPC boat in raw damage and still be slightly cooler...at least until you factor in max damage SNPPCs. As stated above, 125 base damage per round for even a single one is still the undisputed king of destructive potential.