Tanks are stupid

[unendinglabor]

Ok, lets just start by saying, tanks are ridiculously overpowered. I am taking 2 and 2 1/2 difficulty missions and these tanks carry as much or more firepower than 55 ton mechs, not to mention the armor they have, I saw one carrying 3 LRM 20's, @$#*ing 3 of them!!! These tanks by themselves and even individually have the power to unbalance and knockdown mechs, and it only gets worse that these are supposed to be convoys in need of protection by, you guessed it, mechs.

This completely unbalances the game and takes away from the realism of the worlds it is in. So lets really think about this, Mechs are the size of buildings needing to carry an engine likely the size of a tank simply to move, and with that engine they can only carry so much armor and weaponry. Now you have the much smaller tanks carrying as much or more than the mechs? It doesnt make sense, period.

On a second note, if you are going to develop a weapon for military use, it needs to have advantanges over current weapons, if it doesn't then it isn't worth developing. With that in mind think about how much it would cost to develop and build a Mech.
Now Imagine proposing this to a military and they ask, "Is it any better than a tank?", and if your answer is, "Not really, but they are way more expensive in materials,time to build, storing and transporting, and they are easier targets due to their size and the design is easier to hit than the lower profile tanks. =) ", then no military is going to build it.

On a third note, the fact that they are using tanks as convoys in need of escort by mechs is insane, from the firepower they are packing they would be protecting the mechs and not they other way around. I have literally had to start going after the tanks first before going after 70 Ton Mechs because the tanks are doing way more damage and only half as hard to kill.

If the Devs want tanks more powerful than the mechs, then they really ruin the experience, and these tanks should not be convoys in need of protection from mechs.

[nephilimnexus]

Tanks work here just like they do in tabletop, and they were never a laughing matter. With only 4 or 5 armor locations they can layer the slabs on mighty thick - you pretty much had to spam them with lots of little hits and hope for a critical to take them out (which was their main weakness - tanks can take critical hits even without losing their armor first).

What OP seems to have not read from the books is that when you see the word "Carrier" in a vehicle's description it basically means "Glass Cannon" - a unit devoted 100% to offense and with little defensive ability. Meaning thin armor and probably lacking any kind of backup/point-blank weaponry. Classically this made them extremely vulnerable to things like infantry and battle armor which were able to sneak up on tanks and tear them up at close range.

A balanced tank will have a variety of weapons for dealing with targets of different types at different ranges. Of course this means lacking the ability to concentrate firepower effectively.

One of the main issues a lot of people have is some serious misconceptions about how big mechs are. A history of bad artwork from BT's various owners over the years have often made mechs to seem like they're the size of Godzille. They're not. Most only stand 2 or 3 stories tall at most. The reason why the Star League switched to mechs wasn't that they carried more armor or firepower than tanks (because they didn't) but rather they had more mobility and speed. A mech, especially a mech with jump jets, can traverse anything short of boiling lava - including mountains and dense jungles, which pretty much rule out tanks entirely.

So it's important to realize that you're not driving some unstoppable tank-busting machine. You're actually just driving a tank yourself - a tank with legs instead of tracks, but still just a tank.

[Gustuv Wynd]

Publicado originalmente por Tom:

Publicado originalmente por wesnef:

Just a reminder - the mech models are very oversized, so that they stand out on the map more. The vehicles are NOT actually that small in comparison to mechs.

Yup, and on some mech models you can actually see a ladder or ladder like structure which gives a good idea on how big a mech is in comparison to a person.

Though if the mechs were not that big in relation to the vehicles...stomp attacks shouldn't be as nearly effective as they are. That was all I was really thinking of. Really some of these vehicles should be running over mechs based on their tonnage and amount of weapons they are carrying.

[wesnef]

Publicado originalmente por Gustuv Wynd:

Publicado originalmente por Tom:

Yup, and on some mech models you can actually see a ladder or ladder like structure which gives a good idea on how big a mech is in comparison to a person.

Though if the mechs were not that big in relation to the vehicles...stomp attacks shouldn't be as nearly effective as they are. That was all I was really thinking of. Really some of these vehicles should be running over mechs based on their tonnage and amount of weapons they are carrying.

I don't think the "vehicles take bonus melee damage" thing is based on the size difference. Pretty sure it's just a "mechs are cooler than vehicles" play balance thing.

(in tabletop, there's no melee bonus, but the to-hit tables for vehicles make them a good bit more fragile than mechs - there's a variety of additional 'and it loses a move point/the turret is locked in position/critical hit goes through the armor and blows the engine/etc' effects alongside the 'and the damage goes to <armor facing>')

I'm pretty sure tabletop also had ramming/charging attack rules for vehicles. (charge damage is just based on weight X move speed. This BT game abstracts all the different kinds of physical attacks - charge, push, punch, kick - into a generic "Melee", with support weapons added on.)

[pete]

Publicado originalmente por wesnef:

Publicado originalmente por Gustuv Wynd:

Though if the mechs were not that big in relation to the vehicles...stomp attacks shouldn't be as nearly effective as they are. That was all I was really thinking of. Really some of these vehicles should be running over mechs based on their tonnage and amount of weapons they are carrying.

I don't think the "vehicles take bonus melee damage" thing is based on the size difference. Pretty sure it's just a "mechs are cooler than vehicles" play balance thing.

(in tabletop, there's no melee bonus, but the to-hit tables for vehicles make them a good bit more fragile than mechs - there's a variety of additional 'and it loses a move point/the turret is locked in position/critical hit goes through the armor and blows the engine/etc' effects alongside the 'and the damage goes to <armor facing>')

I'm pretty sure tabletop also had ramming/charging attack rules for vehicles.

[fmalfeas]

A locust unfortunate enough to be rammed by a Demolisher is going to get what's coming to it. Those little legs are coming right off.