BATTLETECH

BATTLETECH

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Methariorn 17 ENE 2022 a las 11:53 a. m.
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Worst battletech game in history
To this day you really need to punish the player with an infinity miss streak from the most powerful weapons of his/her mech lance? PPC, AC with like 85% chance to hit who keep missing and missing. There are mission when my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ marrauder could not land a single PPC shot on an enemy mech, even with 80%+ to hit. That just trash and I'm surprised Paradox went so low just to give some challenger in the game.
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Mostrando 121-135 de 154 comentarios
Werecat101 23 ENE 2022 a las 12:49 p. m. 
and what you are suggesting would give more credence to the whole it cheats argument, I so not believe every game should be created for everyone on the planet or you just get bland rubbish for every game, this game is created with tactical wargamers in mind and then further it is based on a niche game.

Lets go back to early game to disprove you ideas about difficulty settings

Sabre wulf on the spectrum 48k and ported to other systems massively popular as a game not 1 difficulty setting on the game.

or should every first person shooter on the planet have its speed reduced for people with slower reaction times?. after all I don't play them due to my slower reactions I am retired.
WillieSea 23 ENE 2022 a las 12:59 p. m. 
You name one old game without difficulty settings, can't say I ever heard of it. Is this where I list the thousands of games with difficulty settings?

And how is giving options give more 'credence' to the it cheats argument? It would actually allow the player to adjust it so they always win, thus eliminating the 'it cheats' hypothesis.

You can claim the game is a tactical niche game, but does that improve sales, perhaps even future sales of follow on titles? Not in any way, you remain in your niche. And personally myself as a programmer, I would rather have more sales and more profit for my hard work. And people wonder why we only see a battletech "niche" game every decade or two?

Those fronting the money see no profit, so why would they put up their money on a title that is niche? This game had to get their money from the community because of that.

If that 'first person shooter' is a single player game, then yes, it should be accessible to more people because like I said, it is about sales, not what you or any other games thinks is right or wrong. Why limit your sales to a smaller audience 'just because'?
Última edición por WillieSea; 23 ENE 2022 a las 1:01 p. m.
Werecat101 23 ENE 2022 a las 1:19 p. m. 
Is the Game "Elite" which didn't have difficulty settings more of a point including all of the spin offs its been redone for various systems since its first version came out.

As for more sales interesting question is this game exceeded it predicted sales by multiples of those predictions, would it have sold this well if it had been given those settings and made easier, would we be facing people that still would be on the forums complaining its too hard, at what point do you draw a line and produce the game. You will always have people that cant play the game and whine about it.

In my opinion and the 8 year old son of the person living next door this game is too damn easy at the moment.

If the financial and being outnumbered is a problem for you Skirmish mode has just cured your problem its 4 vs 4 you can set what each side has.
Última edición por Werecat101; 23 ENE 2022 a las 1:21 p. m.
WillieSea 23 ENE 2022 a las 1:32 p. m. 
I don't have a problem with the game difficulty, as I said I am a programmer and I made my own fixes for the game so that I can enjoy it the way I want to enjoy it.

That cannot be done by a vast majority of the gamers.

Just because the game exceeded the 'predicted sales' does not mean it could not have done better. That is abusing the meaning of the words. It is like saying we only expect 50 people to buy the game, but our sales were 200. Wow, we exceeded our expectations! When the game could have sold 1000 copies if it were more inclusive with more options.

If you feel limiting the game to a small handful of players in a niche is the way to go then that is your opinion and I still respect it as such. Just as what I am saying should be respected as such.
Werecat101 23 ENE 2022 a las 1:56 p. m. 
I find it difficult to call a game anything other than easy to play when you have settings where you cant lose pilots, your mechs are always recovered, you can vary the enemy strength, you can vary how fast your pilots advance, you can vary how many parts it requires to assemble a mech, you can vary how well the missions pay and you can vary how much salvage you get from an enemy short of adding a button which says "bang the enemy are dead" how much easier do you want?.oh and you even control how fast the game advances you are not forced to do the story missions in any fixed timeframe.
AlterEgo45 23 ENE 2022 a las 3:26 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por WillieSea:
I thought that would be obvious? If the 'to hit' values are adjusted, then you have succeeded in making difficulty controls.

+10 to hit for the player, -10 to hit for the AI would be a simple combat modifier.
Add in movement controls as well, plus for the player, minus for the AI. Even plus and minus to detection and targeting and combat weapon ranges.

All are viable difficulty controls for somebody wanting it easier or harder.
They could have even made the 'no-hit breaker' optional.

More options is always better than less options.

No, you can't do it that way. It undermines the credibility of the game.

I've played a couple of sports management titles which worked like this. Where if you are playing on hard level and you sign a player, that player will not play as well for you as he does for everyone else. It doesn't work, because games work around a suspension of disbelief to achieve immersion and those types of changes break the established rules of how the world works. Giving the AI more or less resources is one thing, but affecting performance in a management game is something else... you simply can't bend those kinds of rules.

Think of it from the opposite perspective. Would you play a game that gave you, specifically, a -10% chance to hit for no other reason than because you were the player? In the sports games I mentioned above I only ever played normal level because I didn't want either a benefit or a penalty in that kind of fashion.

Besides that even with that adjustment you're still going to get rolls which defy probability and elicit complaints.

I've developed a little bit, too, though the stuff I did was before Steam's time. You have to seriously watch how you handle difficulty, because after a player beats a game once they have seen all they have to see. Generally they don't go back and say, "let me do the same thing again on hard". That's even true if the player has played a little bit on an easy level and beaten the crap out of the AI. Most don't usually change levels unless they're getting beaten up. And so you've lost their attention, which might be fine in terms of getting you a sale but I like to hold it as long as possible. In general I'd rather a game err towards being a bit too hard than a bit too easy, though that's just me.

FWIW I believe the BT difficulty settings give you an above average array of choices for a game of this type. As an earlier post mentioned, you can pick and choose what missions you want to do, withdraw from a battle as soon as you see you don't like a setup, have pilots eject, and adjust resources (at least at the beginning). It's hard to support the claim that the player doesn't have enough options.
Última edición por AlterEgo45; 23 ENE 2022 a las 3:29 p. m.
WillieSea 23 ENE 2022 a las 3:36 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Werecat101:
I find it difficult to call a game anything other than easy to play when you have settings where you cant lose pilots, your mechs are always recovered, you can vary the enemy strength, you can vary how fast your pilots advance, you can vary how many parts it requires to assemble a mech, you can vary how well the missions pay and you can vary how much salvage you get from an enemy short of adding a button which says "bang the enemy are dead" how much easier do you want?.oh and you even control how fast the game advances you are not forced to do the story missions in any fixed timeframe.
If it is so easy, why are there so many threads on it not being so? There is obviously a disconnect. And you missed the entire premise of the complaint others have about the game.

Publicado originalmente por AlterEgo45:
No, you can't do it that way. It undermines the credibility of the game.
That is hilarious. Credibility of the game...

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As usual, the elitists on this forum fail to see anything past their own mastery of the game and think everybody should be as good.

I don't think the game is that hard which you fail to understand from my messages. I am simply arguing for those that are having difficulty with the game and could use some help to actually enjoy the game.

Games are meant to be enjoyable or would you like to argue that as well...

Anyway, I am done with this thread, continue to complain about how people just should tuff it out and get good and fun be damned.
Werecat101 23 ENE 2022 a las 3:44 p. m. 
less that 0.1% of people that have purchased the game have made a thread about it being too hard.

the sales figure were available on a site which used to be able to get data from steams own servers, when the sales on steam passed 300,000 its easy to believe the sales exceeded 500,000 including other sales platforms.

I don't think that people who enjoy a game come to these forums as much I frequent them to try and help people that are looking at mods. and at the same time put perspective on some of these threads that act like a huge majority of people think the game is super hard or that it cheats, the truth is its a tiny minority think its that hard.
Última edición por Werecat101; 23 ENE 2022 a las 3:45 p. m.
wesnef 23 ENE 2022 a las 4:21 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por AlterEgo45:
No, you can't do it that way. It undermines the credibility of the game.

Uh, what?

It doesn't work, because games work around a suspension of disbelief to achieve immersion and those types of changes break the established rules of how the world works.

Ignoring the part where I don't believe in (or suffer from) "immersion". . .

How is it any different than any other difficulty tweak? More or less salvage, "harder" enemies, salvaged mechs having their stock gear or not. . .

Think of it from the opposite perspective. Would you play a game that gave you, specifically, a -10% chance to hit for no other reason than because you were the player?

If it's an optional handicap that I chose myself, for the sake of More Challenge? I don't see a thing wrong with that. This is a game. It's not some true-to-life reality sim. Change the gravity, tweak the shooting system, do whatever. Go for it.



. . . and I'm really not sure why you're comparing this to a "sports management" game.
Última edición por wesnef; 23 ENE 2022 a las 4:21 p. m.
kensw 23 ENE 2022 a las 5:16 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Werecat101:
l

the sales figure were available on a site which used to be able to get data from steams own servers, when the sales on steam passed 300,000 its easy to believe the sales exceeded 500,000 including other sales platforms.

.

I believe you are referring to Steeamspy they are not completely reliable anymore but generally in the ballpark

" Release date: Apr 24, 2018
Price: $39.99
Old userscore: 82% Metascore: 78%
Owners: 1,000,000 .. 2,000,000 "

The numbers have been over a million for quite awhile now.
Werecat101 23 ENE 2022 a las 5:25 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por kensw:
Publicado originalmente por Werecat101:
l

the sales figure were available on a site which used to be able to get data from steams own servers, when the sales on steam passed 300,000 its easy to believe the sales exceeded 500,000 including other sales platforms.

.

I believe you are referring to Steeamspy they are not completely reliable anymore but generally in the ballpark

" Release date: Apr 24, 2018
Price: $39.99
Old userscore: 82% Metascore: 78%
Owners: 1,000,000 .. 2,000,000 "

The numbers have been over a million for quite awhile now.
yes and that makes the percentage of people that complain even smaller.
danko9696 23 ENE 2022 a las 9:44 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por WillieSea:
Difficulty levels were created when computer games were first created back in the 1970's.

And there was a reason for that, to allow the widest audience possible to play it, enjoy it, and buy more games like it.
Well, games with no difficulty settings at all are getting more popular too, thanks to Dark Souls.

IMO aiming at the widest audience possible is respectable but it is being more frowned upon. Notice the "widest" and the "possible", which is very extreme. A game will have to dumb down the gameplay a lot in order to do that, probably with a completely different game experience. To me that's fine, provided there are alternatives and not all games do the same.

A dev may have a vision about how the game should be experienced and having more difficulty levels may encourage many players to go the path of less resistance instead of becoming proficient with the mechanics so it can be enjoyed at a much deeper level. That's not necessarily good per se, I'm not saying that's inherently better. Not everybody has the time or the patience to get good at more demanding games.

A wider audience means more potential buyers but the competition also increases dramatically, so it's not a clear choice. A developer might have a lot more success in a niche were it can satisfy the needs of a niche and not have a lot of competition.


Publicado originalmente por WillieSea:
Difficulty levels were created when computer games were first created back in the 1970's.

And there was a reason for that, to allow the widest audience possible to play it, enjoy it, and buy more games like it.
I think that's rare, at least openly, but it happens. I was in a discussion where one guy said that using the (recent at the time) "Custom Mode" in Dead Cells was cheating. One mode where you can tweak the item pool for custom runs and also lots of difficulty settings (many of which disabled achievements in order to keep it somewhat fair), while I argued that option wasn't in an obscure menu deep into the settings, using a console or command line but well visible in the main menu when creating a game, so it wasn't cheating. And even if it actually was a explicit cheat code (which actually wasn't) still wouldn't be necessarily cheating, because that depends on the consensus. A exploit or cheat can be 100% legit depending on the case, like some cheat codes (but not others) in Tetris tournaments are explicitly allowed (and actually expected to be used).

At some point the devs made a public statement (not directly in that thread) saying that using Custom Mode is not cheating, that they want players to use it. And while I think many still prefer not using it for "real" runs it can be very useful for practicing, for actually getting good.

So there are people like that. But I think most of the time is the "prestige" that comes with beating a game where there is only one difficulty level.


Publicado originalmente por WillieSea:
Yes, the game was promised to be like the table top, and I have played table top games before and it is up to the game master if they want to 'bend the rules' or not. In this case, the game master is the player and the player should be able to decide without anyone heckling them about their choices to enjoy the game.
Videogames are not TT games or P&P rpgs. The creator of the game has a lot to say about how the game is intended to be played, be it giving the player a lot of flexibility on how to play it, like in a sandbox, or almost none like in a visual novel with just a couple choices here and there.

If you buy a graphic adventure, like an old style one, and you find it very hard you don't get to say to demand the dev that the puzzles should be easier so you can beat them. You have the right to complain but that's it.


Publicado originalmente por WillieSea:
More options is always better than less options.
I disagree. Sometimes is better and sometimes isn't.


Publicado originalmente por WillieSea:
You name one old game without difficulty settings, can't say I ever heard of it. Is this where I list the thousands of games with difficulty settings?
So is this a popularity contest, so the most mainstream, the minimum common denominator is better and other games should be forced to have easier modes implemented?.

I think not every game is for everybody and game devs should have the freedom to choose what they want to do, from no difficulty settings at all up one button wins.

There are a resurgence of harder games in the last years. I already touched above the Dark Souls and the increasing popularity of that philosophy, which while far from mainstream now many ppl know about that as a thing. That there are some games that will likely be a challenge and require to become skilled at the game before you can beat it, instead of being able to brute force it.


Publicado originalmente por WillieSea:
If that 'first person shooter' is a single player game, then yes, it should be accessible to more people because like I said, it is about sales, not what you or any other games thinks is right or wrong.
It is not about sales so it doesn't have to be accessible. It is about what the dev considers right and wrong. And sure, part (or all) of it can be sales, but also may not, it can be even a net cost with no return expected at all (like games made as a hobby).


Publicado originalmente por WillieSea:
Why limit your sales to a smaller audience 'just because'?
If you try to cater to a wider audience you have more competition as well, and you'll may have to make changes to the gameplay, to dumb down. And many players, going for the path of least resistance may play at a lower difficulty level than they should be able to with a little effort. And then in the long run enjoy the game a lot LESS than they would with a higher difficulty setting. So it is a matter of quality over quantity, preferring than those who choose to play your game have a great experience rather than more players playing your game but with a more bland and more generic experience.


In Hollow Knight some bosses and the Colosseum took me dozens of attempts (like 60-70) over several days, but at some point you just "click" and when you do it is really really great. I absolutely love that game. That feeling of overcoming obstacles, that what before (and for a long time), seemed utterly impossible now it is very easy. If I had beaten the game in an afternoon I would have it forgotten long ago. That's just one example.

One of my favorite games of all time is Guitar Hero, even though I didn't beat the whole game but still did most of the max diff songs, which before seemed absolutely ludicrous.
Última edición por danko9696; 23 ENE 2022 a las 9:46 p. m.
DerFinneAT 25 ENE 2022 a las 10:58 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por WillieSea:
I thought that would be obvious? If the 'to hit' values are adjusted, then you have succeeded in making difficulty controls.

+10 to hit for the player, -10 to hit for the AI would be a simple combat modifier.
Add in movement controls as well, plus for the player, minus for the AI. Even plus and minus to detection and targeting and combat weapon ranges.

All are viable difficulty controls for somebody wanting it easier or harder.
They could have even made the 'no-hit breaker' optional.

More options is always better than less options.
XCom2 has more or less all those modifiers you suggest here - yet the game forum is flooded with raging posts about the absurde difficulty, and how unfair the computer cheats in AIs favor, even if the actual opposite is the truth.

https://xcom.fandom.com/wiki/Game_difficulty_(XCOM_2)

The only effect those modifiers seemed to have on the player base was, that inexperienced and learn-unwilling players take each and every potshot and run to the forum to vent, as the strategy fails with bonus as much as without.
Firegeddon 27 ENE 2022 a las 6:00 p. m. 
its not the misses that annoy me.... its the way misses happen you would see lasers going at the opposite side.... like thats a huge robot how can he miss so badly ? maybe someone else is in the cockpit lol
desrtfox071 27 ENE 2022 a las 6:30 p. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Firegeddon:
its not the misses that annoy me.... its the way misses happen you would see lasers going at the opposite side.... like thats a huge robot how can he miss so badly ? maybe someone else is in the cockpit lol

The graphics are an abstraction of the actual battle.

(Also, the mechs themselves are substantially oversized in order to make them more visible on the map)
Última edición por desrtfox071; 27 ENE 2022 a las 6:31 p. m.
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