Best Mech, Weapon(s) and Skills for Back Attack One-Hit/One-Turn Kills?

[Warspawn]

Looking for some thoughts, theories and opinions on combinations here....

First, looking at base mech classes, it's easy to work up the idea that the mech with better initiative will have more options for rapid focused damage necessary to breach armor and core an enemy and remove it from the fight. That trends towards the tactic of reserving your move, moving to the weakest armor point, alpha-striking there with precision strike, doing the same thing if you move first at the early part of the next turn...and possibly moving after that to get to cover if you have the 'Ace Pilot' skill (more questions on those later...).

Knowing at what point your target will get their turn is important in this...your heavy will most often move before an assault, ect. 'Master Tactician' can change this; you want that last-then-first volley.

Looking at what terrain the target is in and seeing if vigilance/brace has been applied obviously effects the lethality of your fire as well. One big, crushing weapon with 'Breaching Shot' is great to ignore 'guarded' and 'cover'. Weapons like a UAC with double-fire, LRM/SRM volleys and 'shotgun' Snub-PPC/LBXs all count their volley as a single shot. Also note that multi-target skill with breaching shot can use this skill on three separate targets...fun stuff to hit A, B, and C targets with your LRM 20+++, UAC 20 and Gauss Rifle with this sounds interesting, but that's another discussion

Ok, so let's see what people are thinking about when kicking this idea around. I have an Orion ON-1V (75 ton Hvy) with an UAC 20 and 4 x JJs piloted by a Mechwarrior with Master Tactician to move during the Mediums' initiative phase. I work with Bulwark and evasion from a Jump in-and-out to decrease any damage thrown at me. Maybe a Warhammer with its + damage from energy weapons would work better and avoid recoil penalties. or an Archer packed with SRMs... missiles with extra +StbDmg causing a knockdown would eliminate a second called shot if you run low on the points necessary.

What do you think? Perhaps a Medium like the Wolverine or Kintaro piloted by someone with Breaching Shot? I've also had fun with a Victor flying in to fire and then melee at the next turn which is great to manage heat generated from the initial jump+alpha strike. An airborne Assault Mech is all kinds of fun!

Thanks for the input!! Just started the game a couple of weeks ago and still learning the value of paying good salaries for moral, com systems for resolve gain, and having that Marauder's Lance Command Module for the Called Shot bonus and Damage reduction dropping with my lance. Hmm....maybe that bonus would do well for some precision shots from the Marauder in a build to do something along the lines I've been thinking...

<S!>
~War~

[maerchen]

Discolaser-Firestarter is the best backstabber in my book for vanilla BT.

2xML++
6xSL+++
6JJ
rest of tonnage is armor.

This guy is playing a lights only vanilla ironman atm: https://www.twitch.tv/monsieurwronge

4 FST, nothing else. :D

[maerchen]

You don't need breaching shot when you attack the rear arc of a Mech.

[wesnef]

My usual/favorite backstabbers are:

Griffin 2N - 4x SRM6++ (+support weapons/lasers; I haven't settled on a build since the patch gave SLDF mechs more base heat), 5 Jets

Grasshopper - 7x MLas++, 6x (MG++ or SLas++), 4 Jets

[danko9696]

If you want to hit & run the best mechs are the Black Knight B, the Marauder (all variants), Warhammer 7A and the Atlas-II. But here we're talking mostly about attacking from the front.

If what you're asking is about backstabbing specifically then the best mech for sure is the Phoenix Hawk 1B and the Griffin-2N afterwards.

Originally posted by maerchen:

Discolaser-Firestarter is the best backstabber in my book for vanilla BT.

2xML++
6xSL+++
6JJ
rest of tonnage is armor.

That runs very hot and only has 24% to backstab an Atlas. Something like a GRFN-2N 3xSRM4++ 1xSRM2++ 2xMPL++ 2xERSL++ runs much cooler and has 86% to backstab the same Atlas. And it is vanilla too.

[Nasarog]

My go to is a Griffin 2N with a lot of jump jets (5 I think) and 4 SRM's and a S-Laser.... This bad boy can almost take out an assault with a rear (targeted attack).

[Warspawn]

Originally posted by maerchen:

You don't need breaching shot when you attack the rear arc of a Mech.

Thanks for that...I'd totally forgotten about that...not needed for melee either of course! N00b moment

<S!>
~War~

[Sentient_Toaster]

Unmodded, grasshopper/phoenix hawk for backstabbing specifically. However, at least later in the game you'll probably find it more efficient to run at least one Marauder with a Tactic 9 pilot, because they can get a ~34% chance for a head hit from the front arc.

Modded, things change a lot, like maybe there's no called-shot bonus for any mech whatsoever and reserve becomes a lot less valuable because the AI will frequently simply reserve down with you, or focus fire (sometimes to the degree of every mech targeting the same mech if they can. after having the faster ones reserve down so that they're all firing on the same initiative) making it a lot more dangerous trying to get close enough to backstab.

[maerchen]

Originally posted by danko9696:

2xML++
6xSL+++
6JJ
rest of tonnage is armor.

That runs very hot and only has 24% to backstab an Atlas. Something like a GRFN-2N 3xSRM4++ 1xSRM2++ 2xMPL++ 2xERSL++ runs much cooler and has 86% to backstab the same Atlas. And it is vanilla too.

It sure is kinda hot, but you can out-initiative everything and have 2 turns with an ace pilot, not needing the MLs. And 6 JJ is more options to hide after the kill.

Your build is cool in both kind of ways.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by maerchen:

It sure is kinda hot, but you can out-initiative everything and have 2 turns with an ace pilot, not needing the MLs. And 6 JJ is more options to hide after the kill.

Late game you can out-init any heavy/assault with the 2N too, and your mech has around 65 alpha heat with a near max distance jump + alpha, double that if you want to do it again on the way back with AP. The 2N is a lot more lethal, more survivable and a lot more damage sustainable, more capable of chaining kills, you can even use it for headcapping using hit & run attacking from the front. Not really good at that but not bad either for a non Marauder.

And with DLCs the PHX1B is even better than the 2N.

[Nasarog]

Originally posted by danko9696:

Originally posted by maerchen:

It sure is kinda hot, but you can out-initiative everything and have 2 turns with an ace pilot, not needing the MLs. And 6 JJ is more options to hide after the kill.

Late game you can out-init any heavy/assault with the 2N too, and your mech has around 65 alpha heat with a near max distance jump + alpha, double that if you want to do it again on the way back with AP. The 2N is a lot more lethal, more survivable and a lot more damage sustainable, more capable of chaining kills, you can even use it for headcapping using hit & run attacking from the front. Not really good at that but not bad either for a non Marauder.

And with DLCs the PHX1B is even better than the 2N.

I'm hunting down them parts...

[danko9696]

Originally posted by Nasarog:

I'm hunting down them parts...

The 2N can be very funny to play with because you are all over the place thanks to the great jump distance, and that while attacking almost constantly thanks to the good heat management (partly provided by the double internal heatsinking).

[Nasarog]

Originally posted by danko9696:

Originally posted by Nasarog:

I'm hunting down them parts...

The 2N can be very funny to play with because you are all over the place thanks to the great jump distance, and that while attacking almost constantly thanks to the good heat management (partly provided by the double internal heatsinking).

Yup yup

[wendigo211]

I agree with Danko9696 on the Phoenix Hawk-1B being the best backstabber by a country mile. Following that it's probably the Griffin-2N and the star league Crab (can't remember the model number on that one).

[Warspawn]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

I agree with Danko9696 on the Phoenix Hawk-1B being the best backstabber by a country mile. Following that it's probably the Griffin-2N and the star league Crab (can't remember the model number on that one).

I wish I had posted this thread awhile ago to watch what I've earned and sold. I'm sure I've scrapped a few Phoenix's and Griffs, but not sure of which ones. I do have a base Phoenix and the Kurita one in storage, and one of the Griffs, although I'm sure I'd remember it having something special on it like the heat sink bonus that's been talked about (I assume that is a reference to it having DHS)...pretty sure that the one in there is the -1N. I don't recall seeing the -2N in any fights against me or available afterwards as salvage. If I see one in a mission, it's mine; gonna play guillotine with my Marauder . I just got the Black Knight this way by decapitating one in a fight and salvaging the pieces. Didn't see anything special about it, but of course the nice one that was in 'Escape' wasn't the version I got. Maybe I should have ejected and salvaged that one you get to play during Escape, lol!

<S!>
~War~

[Scathe]

Originally posted by Warspawn:

Originally posted by wendigo211:

I agree with Danko9696 on the Phoenix Hawk-1B being the best backstabber by a country mile. Following that it's probably the Griffin-2N and the star league Crab (can't remember the model number on that one).

I wish I had posted this thread awhile ago to watch what I've earned and sold. I'm sure I've scrapped a few Phoenix's and Griffs, but not sure of which ones. I do have a base Phoenix and the Kurita one in storage, and one of the Griffs, although I'm sure I'd remember it having something special on it like the heat sink bonus that's been talked about (I assume that is a reference to it having DHS)...pretty sure that the one in there is the -1N. I don't recall seeing the -2N in any fights against me or available afterwards as salvage. If I see one in a mission, it's mine; gonna play guillotine with my Marauder . I just got the Black Knight this way by decapitating one in a fight and salvaging the pieces. Didn't see anything special about it, but of course the nice one that was in 'Escape' wasn't the version I got. Maybe I should have ejected and salvaged that one you get to play during Escape, lol!

<S!>
~War~

those are star league models wendigo and others are talking about. all 3 of those, phoenix hawk, griffin, and crab, are only available on the black market for purchase. you won't be salvaging them in any mission. the non-star league variants (which you can salvage) can also be ok for backstabbing but not nearly as good. you want to improve reputation with the pirates, to improve the prices on the black market. I think lots of new players ruin that reputation before they find out how powerful it is. all the best stuff to buy besides argo upgrades is on the black market.