Fix the cheating AI in the campaign - not fun.

[Zombo]

Seems some missions the enemy is nearly impossible to kill until its killed of atleast one of your mechs on some missions. Then they all seem to take damage and die as normal after that. Before one of your guys dies, they are nearly unkillable.

Before one of your guys dies, they're landiing almost every shot, even when you have 5 or 6 chevrons in evasion - doing huge damage with each volley. Stripping 2-3 ticks of armor with each strike, and doing major stability damage with each attack. Meanwhile they take almost no damage in return when you hit them. - with superior weapons no less.

And thats with the enemy in inferior light mechs.

And the enemy tanks in the mission cant be killed unless you manage to stomp them in a melee attack. Bbut they move too far to catch most of the time. All you can do is sprint after them, but then you have no attack. Shot one manticore tank with all four mechs 16 times, thats four rounds with all four mechs concentrating on the one tank. It did two ticks or armor damage to the tank from all of it. Once they killed one of my mechs, it died in the next shot as is normal. That one manticore nearly killed two medium mechs by itself, while taking minimal damage itself from many hits i delivered while chasing it around.

Fix this. NOTHING is worse than cheating AI and scripting in a so called tactical strategy game. There should be no such thing as this kind of nonsense in a game like this. Scripted no-win situations are not fun, and defeat the entire purpose of playing a game like this.

[Steppenrazor]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Originally posted by Steppenrazor:

but srms, lrms and lasers seem to have a range of everything. no +acc and dmg.. but +acc and crit.

There are +acc and +dmg lasers, and +dmg SRMs.

I <3 my SRM6s w/ +4 dmg.

MLs, SLs each have +10 dmg variants, although +10 dmg SLs appear to be very rare (fewer enemies use SLs, so fewer chances to roll for +10 dmg SLs presumably).

oh. i meant

+acc AND damage. seen one or the other.. but not both on same one. not saying they dont exist.. just hadnt found.

but ive seen sevral lasers +acc AND +crit.. (and i *think* i got a LL thats +3acc and +10dmg.. but i can swear to it. ill double check when i get home.)

and yea srm6 +4 dmg is nice.. lol

[Mad_jack]

Originally posted by Eisberg:

Originally posted by Mad_jack:

Total or per part? 180 total is bad... 180 on a part, unless torso, is quite good...

Total.

In that case it is completely plausible that a PPC kan strip armour and crit/kill a mech. 180/8 = 22,5 armour points on average.

[Mad_jack]

Originally posted by Steppenrazor:

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

There are +acc and +dmg lasers, and +dmg SRMs.

I <3 my SRM6s w/ +4 dmg.

MLs, SLs each have +10 dmg variants, although +10 dmg SLs appear to be very rare (fewer enemies use SLs, so fewer chances to roll for +10 dmg SLs presumably).

oh. i meant

+acc AND damage. seen one or the other.. but not both on same one. not saying they dont exist.. just hadnt found.

but ive seen sevral lasers +acc AND +crit.. (and i *think* i got a LL thats +3acc and +10dmg.. but i can swear to it. ill double check when i get home.)

and yea srm6 +4 dmg is nice.. lol

SRM 6 +4 damage and +2 Stab damage or 50% crit is hell for enemy mechs.

[Mad_jack]

Originally posted by Zombo:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1385660489

Just watch the video's I gave you. There you can see what you do wrong.

[Sunthios]

Originally posted by Zombo:

I dont care what excuses you guys make, the "repossession" mission is bugged. Its a 2.5 skull mission, but it plays like a 5 skull, or more.

I just did a 3.5 skull, 2 lance mission and hardly took a scratch. I march through every other mission, including the story missions, with ease. But not this mission. Everything does WAY more damage and takes many many more hits to kill. And its not because they are using weapons i dont normally see, and they arent mechs or vehicles I dont normally face in other missions. Not only that, all my weapons suddenly start shooting spit wads. I do alpha strikes that normally destroy mechs in one or two attacks, they do 20% the damage to mechs in this mission.

So say what you want, but i see a massive difference in how the game plays on that misson compared to any of the others. Everything its way way harder, their accuracy is insane regardless of evasion ticks, and they are way tougher that in any other mission ive seen so far. The mission cannot be beaten without losing mechs.

Funny that you mention that mission. That's the mission I lost behemoth and my PC took three headshots, but that was mostly because of that trebucht in the background that was non stop peppering me with his lrms. I had the hardest time getting to him to because I didnt want to leave my guys exposed to the Orion(who died pretty easily to pilot injuries).

I just attributed that mission though to the fact that was the first one that I took 2 srm boats plus my lrm boat with my medium scout(some 45 tonner with 6 medium lasers). A couple of unlucky RNG shots on my kintaro and me being one turn to late to start pulling her back led me to lose my tankiest mechwarrior. I took the loss as a learning experience and turned that Orion I got to an ac20 and medium laser monster.

The kickstarter pilots "brother" and "live fire" officially took my officially joined my main roster as her replacement plus backup pilot.

Some missions are bad man. Take it in stride and move on.

[Steppenrazor]

Originally posted by Mad_jack:

]l

SRM 6 +4 damage and +2 Stab damage or 50% crit is hell for enemy mechs.

hahahahahahahahahaha.. i swear i just got home.. loaded my game.. went to new system.. and first store i checked?

srm6.. +4 dmg and +2 stb dmg. then noticed the 732b highlander had on. id not modded its weapons as i didnt want to mess up its load out.

[Doctor Tiki]

Originally posted by Zombo:

Ive replayed this mission over a dozen times, and miraculously none of the enemy take much damage until they kill one of your mechs. Then suddenly they go back to taking normal damage after they do.

And they deal ridiculous amounts of damage with every attack, rarely missing a missile, no matter how much evasion you have. Doing massive damage with each hit.

The reason its OBVIOUS the game is cheating, is due to the fact it all goes back to normal once one of your guys dies. Suddenly your taking them out left and right. Before that they are hitting with everything for massive damge and taking almost none in return.

Im using superior mechs, and all my guys are 6 or higher in every skill. Dont tell me the game isnt cheating, this isnt a one off, it plays exactly the same every time no matter what I do.

- Its not a priority mission. And im well past the early part of the game. This has nothing to do with full armor or whatever. Its 4 lite mechs, usually Locusts, and four vehicles. NONE of them will die until one of your mech dies, then miraculously they are easily killed as normal.

Put a replay up on online so we can see this obvious behavior

[lind0nius]

Originally posted by Lack of Stuff:

Originally posted by Zombo:

The white armor bars floating above your mechs...

Don't use those for reference. They suck. Go into options turn on UI in battle animations so you can see all the hit points, get hit by a PPC then check the panel that was hit and report on the dmg.

Literally this. He could save himself so much time and trouble if he just realised that his claims are easily proven beyond all measure of doubt if he just showed us some paper doll pics with the actual armour values.

Here is a pic of the paper doll of an enemy mech with the mouse pointer hovering over it's center torso......

https://imgur.com/GAnpVxT

As you can see, the NUMERICAL VALUE (not "ticks" ) of the armour is clearly displayed. This mech has 10 armour remaining, with 40 left of the internal structure in the center torso. Therefore hit(s) to the center torso totalling 50 damage will destroy this mech.

To the OP: You can do this with your own paper doll diagram in the bottom left corner of your screen. Just hover your mouse over your mech, record the NUMERICAL VALUE of the amount of armour of the mech, get hit by a PPC or whatever weapon on this "cheating" mission, hover your mouse over the paper doll again, and then show that the PPC the AI hit you with took off more damage from the NUMERICAL VALUE than the 50 damage it was supposed to.

Then post up the evidence on here and prove us all wrong.

It really is that easy.

[methos_723]

@ Zombo

I have felt like you did...

I have hit a mission here or there that seemed like it creamed me when I was used to a cake walk.

Skulls are a rough aproximation... your a mercenary remember... not everything will be as expected. But there are other factors too.

Then I learned to watch out for certain things that consistenty gave me that trouble and adjust my tactics. I see these things present in your mission here. Its not cheating nor does it look like a bug. Damage all looked right. It's just different than you are used to.


So a couple things to keep in mind:
1) The AI will unload everything it has into your mechs when the to hit chance is high. But might fire just one weapon when the to hit chance is low. Mission variables that can impact this might be pilot skill, weapon range and weapon quality, elevation. But especially your mech evasion and cover. So if in range you better have max evasion and ideally some cover or trees.

2) When the AI fields multiple units with LRMs you have to be very careful because they are in range without line of site or even being on radar. And those LRM vehicles are killer! You have to treat them as the crux of the mission. Max evasion helps but 60 LRMs at 45% to hit is about the same as a LRM 20 at 95% to hit.

Combine 1 and 2 above and you can lose a mech in just a couple rounds no problem. On the other hand... keep out of LOS with max evasion and you get a totally different result.

Solution:
- Manage initiative... One way to keep those LRMs from ever firing is to never leave a living unit in line of sight... unless they sensor ping you which totally sucks still.
- Max evasion in early rounds.
- Max the weapons you bring to bear on a single unit.
- When outnumbered (even just out LRM'd) Back up out of line of sight and manage engagement thru intiative. Use hills and ridges to force enemy units into range before you expose yourself to LOS.
- Never be in a range of an SRM carrier... ever... unless you are killing it before its next move.

How I would approach the scenario you shared in your video:
First - as others mentioned I would fix your loadout. Personally I would:
- Make a couple LRM boats... LRM5 is great for multi shotting evasion away... but not much else. 2 LRM 15s on 1 mech ... or more are great for softening up units. (though LRM 5 is also useful when you see a unit has 2 strucuture left in one spot). Net my LRM boat (55t) is often LRM15, LRM15, LRM5
- Keep a couple PPC or AC or L laser for the killing shot. A couple = 1 on 2 different mechs. Then give those mechs some more LRMs.
- Especially against vehicles DO THE MATH. Look at their armor and consider any damage penalties. Soften them up with LRM if needed (not LRM 5 probably).. then when armor plus structure is less than a PPC hit you finish them off with a PPC (or weapon of choice). LRM is not the most efficient way to finish a vehicle since you have to wear down so many locations its a waste of missles. Use LRM first to bring all location down so a killing shot is possible anywhere. Then one big damage weapon can finish the job.

Second - Before breaking LOS... Max evasion with sprint into woods but not into enemy fire. Sometimes that means running sideways. Then with max evasion reserve untill they move forward. Ideally you are positioned so they STILL dont make LOS after they move. Then move up to make LOS with one of your units and 1 or 2 of theirs. Keep your other units back to fire at range. And take out the visible units.
- Step 1 multi shot LRM 5s to reduce evasion
- Piercing shot for braced.
- LRM 15s to soften up thick armor.
- Big damage weapons to get the kill - only use called shots on these please! Or an alpha strike. Not LRM5.

Third - cycle your units.
- I like to move one unit up front into LOS with 5 pips of evasion and in the woods. Let them shoot at that! Keep everyone else back out of enemy LOS and feed off the lead unit LOS firing in from the fog of war.
- Then next round maybe that lead unit got hit thru his evasion even... so you move him back and someone else up.
- This gives you 4 rounds of decent damage absorption!!! Though I tend to have a slow low armor LRM boat that always stays in back... so 3 rounds but I wont need more.
- Yes you can get some unlucky head hits.. or multiple lucky PPC hits... it can happen. So deal with it or reload.

Keeping in mind I was cake walking most missions... I did need to make the above adaptions for certain situations. Doing so took me from being steam rolled to finishing the same mission without a single damaged mech or injured pilot.

Also lots of other great ideas posted by others... try them before your next video.

[Magnus Chro]

I just finished the game and the AI did not cheat at all. You simply need to learn to take the right mechs and use the right tactics.

[RodHull]

Originally posted by Zombo:

no. Im not going to waste my time on that, This is PURELY about these vehicles behaving differently in this mission compared to others. How I play, or what tactics is use, are irrelevant to that point. A striker or manticore should not be an entirely different opponent one mission to the next, dealing and taking vastly different damage one mission to the next.

All other missions everything is consistent, but not on this mission. Everything is significantly tougher, and does more damage. Same vehicles, same weapons, much different results.

But they dont, as people have said there are lots of different vehicles and vehicles with different levels of armour. Those piddling lrms you fired in that video at the vehicle early on wouldnt take out even the lowliest of vehicles let alone the front shots of a tank like that.

Please provide another video showing the vehicles as you say taking less damage you know the video everyone asked for thats actually related to your OP rather than the now pointless video you wasted time making.

All these claims can be easily verified in just a 1 minute video, enable the UI to show when you get hit, get shot by a weapon watch which area it hits, hover over that and show us all how the damage is wrong... then we will all have to eat humble pie

Or you know keep stating you know your right posting videos that dont show anything you said they did and dimissing everyones advice.

[Zuul]

Originally posted by Zombo:

Its not my fault you people feel the need to argue with me. I know what Im seeing in game, and you wont convince me im wrong.

It's time to shut it down folks. I'm honestly amazed this thread has gone this long. The OP is either a troll and deserves to be ignored and privately scorned, or the OP suffered neurological damage at some point and should be ignored and privately pittied.

Either way, as per the OP, he can not be convinced he's wrong. Let it die.

[lind0nius]

Originally posted by Zuul:

Originally posted by Zombo:

Its not my fault you people feel the need to argue with me. I know what Im seeing in game, and you wont convince me im wrong.

It's time to shut it down folks. I'm honestly amazed this thread has gone this long. The OP is either a troll and deserves to be ignored and privately scorned, or the OP suffered neurological damage at some point and should be ignored and privately pittied.

Either way, as per the OP, he can not be convinced he's wrong. Let it die.

He could prove himself right and all of us wrong if he'd just post screenies/vids of the NUMERICAL VALUES on his mech paper doll diagrams.

[Evol_Prodigy]

The best part of this thread was when the OP posted a video proving himself wrong and continued anyway.

[Napoleonic S]

Originally posted by Zuul:

Originally posted by Zombo:

Its not my fault you people feel the need to argue with me. I know what Im seeing in game, and you wont convince me im wrong.

It's time to shut it down folks. I'm honestly amazed this thread has gone this long. The OP is either a troll and deserves to be ignored and privately scorned, or the OP suffered neurological damage at some point and should be ignored and privately pittied.

Either way, as per the OP, he can not be convinced he's wrong. Let it die.

No keep it alive, he's doing fine soaking up 1000 alpha strike damage from every community mechs here, this has been a very entertaining match.