Quickdraw is garbage?

[p.sahlstroem]

Yay, first heavy in this career run. Quickdraw... Not one of the mechs that scare me when it pops up on the battlefield, but it is a heavy right? Wrong, less armour and firepower than my Kintaro and less armour (and rougly the same firepower due to heat issues) as my Shadowhavk and Griffin. Three missions and two of my best pilots are dead. AI seems to focus it's fire on it (I understand why, it has paper armour).

So enough of that. Stripped it clean, slapped on max armour 1x LRM 20 1x LRM 5 and used the spare ton to mount a medium laser. Let's see if this works better...

Any one out there that have managed to get a Quickdraw to be usefull?

[orcaa]

I see the Quickdraw as a decent scouting mech until something better comes along. Max out the JumpJets and armor. Add in some weapons and it can provide some decent service.

[JC]

Originally posted by Beatnik59:

Missile boats can be hard to come by early. Most of the mechs that can do the job, like the Centurion, you'll want to armor up and fight with at close range. True fire support mechs, like the Catapult and the Jagermech , might not be available yet.

But by this stage, you might have one large rack of LRMs, one 15 or 20, that you might not know what to do with. That goes in the Quickdraw. Put a couple large lasers on it, and now you have a stopgap fire support mech for your middleweight brawlers like the Centurions, Hunchies, Enforcers, and Vindis.

Keep the Quickdraw out of the scrum. Typically, by the time you get the Quickdraw, your opponents are still primarily playing in Phase 3 and 4, and the Quickdraw doesn't have the staying power to survive until Phase 2 if the enemy lance focus fires on it.

So keep it out of medium laser and SRM range, and it should survive by the time you are ready to deploy the T-Bolts, C-Pults, and J-Mechs that will replace it.

Quickdraw is far better than the cent early game, More armor and much faster (aka moves farther) Just level up one or 2 pilots with tactics and it will be a far better option than the cent.


It's not a heavy tank, It's a a medium with better armor and better movement than over half the mediums in the game.

[Werecat101]

one mans gold is another mans garbage.

Its not what it is, its how you use it.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by JC:

Quickdraw is far better than the cent early game, More armor and much faster (aka moves farther) Just level up one or 2 pilots with tactics and it will be a far better option than the cent.

The Centurion have 29.5 t available after maxing JJs, the QD has 24.5 and generates more heat (one more JJ) having less available weight for cooling and/or weapons plus slightly more armor but less inititiative, which I think this alone is far better than the extra maximum (non free) armor, not counting the extra tonnage or the +5% evasion the Centurion has. Because being able to act before pretty much all other meds is a huge advantage early on, you're doing more damage, even with lower speed you have better mobility on practice, because you can jump much often than the QD unless this sacrifices a lot of firepower when he was already behind.

[KDubya]

Both the Quickdraw and Dragon are vendor trash. Any 4/6 50 tonner or 5/8 55 ton mech is better.

As pointed out the bigger engine and the double weight jump jets really hit these mechs hard, plus they act slower than the medium mechs that are flat out better.

To add insult to injury the Quickdraw even punches like a girl, so using melee to cool down is a terrible idea.

[MortVent]

It is a stop holder, till you can get something better. Something to remember with the dragon and every "bad" mech. They are useful and if you try to speed through the campaign you'll need to accept the lower grade ones to help move your power up over time.

I've used vindicators and a spider to take out the pirates for getting the argo, then had the spider replaced with the quickdraw for the next mission...

Sometimes you don't get the salvage or mechs you want, so you make do with what you get. And making a sub par mech shine is a very good skill to develop. It makes it even better when you get an Orion or Atlas.. Because you know how to make that banshee wreck faces, so given a good mech you can really melt faces.

[JC]

Originally posted by danko9696:

Originally posted by JC:

Quickdraw is far better than the cent early game, More armor and much faster (aka moves farther) Just level up one or 2 pilots with tactics and it will be a far better option than the cent.

The Centurion have 29.5 t available after maxing JJs, the QD has 24.5 and generates more heat (one more JJ) having less available weight for cooling and/or weapons plus slightly more armor but less inititiative, which I think this alone is far better than the extra maximum (non free) armor, not counting the extra tonnage or the +5% evasion the Centurion has. Because being able to act before pretty much all other meds is a huge advantage early on, you're doing more damage, even with lower speed you have better mobility on practice, because you can jump much often than the QD unless this sacrifices a lot of firepower when he was already behind.

You don't need to use JJ's on this mech. I know i don't, IMO JJ's are very over rated in this game, but hey play how you want. As i said, You use a pilot with Tactical skill, It moves with mediums, and can move almost twice the distance of a Cent. That is huge early game. So basically it can be your first mech to move after your lights which generally get reserved first turn anyway. So my QD is typically my first mech to move, Bulwurk/tactics build, or get that extra chevron with the movement tree. Max sprint the thing moves almost as far as a jenner!

that is not to say i don't combo my QD with a cent or an HBK, with a weapons tree pilot so i can single shot to break through a guarded state. The +5 chevron QD Is pretty sweet for tanking and using it as bait.

4 ML's+2 SRM6's and some extra heatsinks, this mech runs cool even on the hottest maps. In fact it's my Goto mech any time i have to drop on them if it is ready.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by JC:

You don't need to use JJ's on this mech. I know i don't, IMO JJ's are very over rated in this game, but hey play how you want. As i said, You use a pilot with Tactical skill, It moves with mediums, and can move almost twice the distance of a Cent. That is huge early game. So basically it can be your first mech to move after your lights which generally get reserved first turn anyway. So my QD is typically my first mech to move, Bulwurk/tactics build, or get that extra chevron with the movement tree. Max sprint the thing moves almost as far as a jenner!

that is not to say i don't combo my QD with a cent or an HBK, with a weapons tree pilot so i can single shot to break through a guarded state. The +5 chevron QD Is pretty sweet for tanking and using it as bait.

4 ML's+2 SRM6's and some extra heatsinks, this mech runs cool even on the hottest maps. In fact it's my Goto mech any time i have to drop on them if it is ready.

It doesn't move double distance but far from it, and without JJs where is the speed when there are obstacles? even an assault will be faster. Then you waste a lvl 8 skill slot (if I understood you correctly you use Master Tactician) when you could add Ace Pilot, which is a HUGE boost to survivability together with inherent -1 init; or Coolant Vent (very good when you don't have DHS/TEX yet or a lot of weight to spare in cooling) and JJs (which I think they're not overrated at all). Both choices are far far better imo than a bit more of armor.

Sure, in the open will be faster but not as a Jenner, not even close. It has the same speed as any 55t mech but just with no -1 init, no -5% to be hit and slightly higher armor. With the Cent you only need to look for some obstacles, wait there and jump in & out while you're barely being touched unless you're sensor locked and targeted wit LRMs (if you go for Ace Pilot). Then, with the QD no JJs and 4ML 2SRM6, if you want to max armor you're left with 36 net heat alpha (two HS), which is pretty hot, while the Cent can do 2ML 3SRM6 with 4JJs and 12 net heat alpha (only 2 dmg less) or 3ML 2SRM6.

[necro55]

I got mine from that argo mission, where you first get to it. At the time it was great but i had a blackjack, spider and 2 something around 30-35, so it was great. Later on not so mich, but i did do the jj and bulwark and evasion tanking thing which worked well. Not the best mech bit it certainly is t bad and very usable at certain points in the game.

[ImHelping]

Anyone who says "You don't need JJs" has lived a blessed life with HBS's map tendencies.

"Hey LRM Cent who 'didn't need jets', how is spending every single turn sprinting up this zigzag mess of a mountain going?"

"Almost... at.... maximum LRM range-"

"Whoops, we just finished the mission. Good job."

Or more awkward when the map borders close off the only sane route that doesn't walk directly through a base's turret coverage while the rest of your JJ equipped lance has a cushy ambush position.

[Beatnik59]

Originally posted by danko9696:

... As i said, You use a pilot with Tactical skill...

I think the problem is that a lot of folks don't have a Master Tac at the stage when they get a Quickdraw. At the beginning and in early mid campaign, players are typically working one to two skull missions, earning credits to make Argo upgrades, and trying to get solid mediums together so that they can go after the two and a half to three skull missions where they'll loot their first big heavies, like the T-Bolt and Orion. Cash is low, salvage is bad, skills are poor, and the mech techs are slow.

Speaking for myself, I've got other priorities for my scouts' training this early in the campaign or career before I invest in Master Tac (like making sure they can evade, survive, and hit something out there).

Even if I did have a Master Tac, I'd put the Master Tac in a Wolverine, Griffin, or the Shadow Hawk, to go in Round 4 with the lights. Late in the game, in four and a half or five skull missions, I don't generally have to worry about mids, and I put the Master Tac in a heavy. But by that time, I usually have a jump-capable true heavy, like a Grasshopper or a Catapult.

But maybe it's here, in the endgame, that the Quickdraw really shines as a heavy scout for assault and fire lances. It's how House Kurita used them according to the tabletop lore, so it makes sense that it would be used here. By the time the player is ready to take on four and five skull missions, most players have highly skilled scouts with not only Master Tac, but bonuses to evasion, accuracy, and heat management, which erases a lot of the Quickdraw's problems. When the opposition is in Orions, T-Bolts, Stalkers, and Awesomes, the 5/8/5 movement of the Quickdraw is substantial. Couple that with going in Round 3, with a Master Tac, and now your scout is sensor locking in a machine that can swoop in out of reserve, finish off heavily damaged heavies and assaults, and jump back out again before the rest can draw a bead.

I'll try it, and see how it goes.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

"Hey LRM Cent who 'didn't need jets', how is spending every single turn sprinting up this zigzag mess of a mountain going?"

Because you don't need direct line of fire with LRMs you also don't need to keep up the pace of the other mechs. You just can rest comfortably at the base of the mountain while you keep firing. Many rules that apply for other setups don't do for LRM boats.

Originally posted by Beatnik59:

But maybe it's here, in the endgame, that the Quickdraw really shines as a heavy scout for assault and fire lances.

How does shine a Quickdraw vs a Shadowhawk which has same speed, a bit more weight available with JJs, -5% to be hit and -1 init so he does act before heavies by default?. You now have QD + Master Tactician vs any 55 tonner + any other lvl 8 skill. The only advantage the QD has is slightly more max armor, which is not nearly as good as Ace Pilot or even Coolant Vent.

Also in the endgame what shines as scout (in maps as small as we have) is not a med or a "fast" heavy but a full assault with a lot of firepower, moderate armor and good cooling to be able to jump often. You have to remember that once into sensor range you're (most likely) at 3JJ jump distance from ML/SRM effective range.

Originally posted by Beatnik59:

the 5/8/5 movement of the Quickdraw is substantial. Couple that with going in Round 3, with a Master Tac, and now your scout is sensor locking in a machine that can swoop in out of reserve, finish off heavily damaged heavies and assaults, and jump back out again before the rest can draw a bead.

You reserve, jump+fire, and jump back, and that's with greatly diminished firepower after adding those 5 JJs. But with a med + Ace Pilot you can reserve, jump + fire , fire + jump back. You need to lower your damage a LOT with the QD for it to work decently and that works much better with four lower weight JJs on a Cent rather than five increased weight JJs that also generate more heat on a QD which also has less available weight to begin with.

If you want to do it with a QD in Martian (hotter reasonable biome imo) you'd have for example a 1ML 1SRM4 1SRM2 (122 dmg, max armor) for two jump+alpha (90 total heat, including JJ heat) for 244 total damage. For a Cent 2ML 3SRM4 (194 dmg, max armor) for two jump+alpha (80 total heat inc. JJ) you'd do 388 total (244 dmg vs 388). That's assuming you fire two times with the QD, but if you stick to what you say (double turn by reserving + Master Tactician) then you only fire once before jumping back so it's actually 122 damage from the QD vs 388 from the Cent.

[ImHelping]

A lot of "Veterans" in any game seem to use the cushy lazy boy chair of hindsight and 'only endgame matters' no matter the genre or format. It is true.

Though my own endgame Master Tactics fat scout for launch was a thunderbolt. For the same reasoning listed above of "Why endgame quickdraw", just far more capable even with less jets and land speed in contributing.

The paradox of a fanbase that both demands clantech "For deeper gameplay, not because it's overpowered!", yet cried point blank LRM fire thanks to pilot skills was "Too easy" is so staggering it hurts.

[chefcook90]

I know a surefire way to make a Quickdraw useful:

Sell it for cash, and use the cash to pay for your ludicrously high mechwarrior salaries.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

A lot of "Veterans" in any game seem to use the cushy lazy boy chair of hindsight and 'only endgame matters' no matter the genre or format. It is true.

Though my own endgame Master Tactics fat scout for launch was a thunderbolt. For the same reasoning listed above of "Why endgame quickdraw", just far more capable even with less jets and land speed in contributing.

The paradox of a fanbase that both demands clantech "For deeper gameplay, not because it's overpowered!", yet cried point blank LRM fire thanks to pilot skills was "Too easy" is so staggering it hurts.

About the endgame is a matter of preferences. You're not forced into it and you can stop playing as soon as you finish the campaign/career, to start a new playthrough if you want to keep playing early-mid game, it is equally valid way of playing. But I think most threads show ppl are more interested in the late game, me too.

Where is the fanbase demanding clantech? because besides one or two isolated threads that's not what I'm seeing, both here and the official forums. Although it could be the case that's what most people want, but I just don't see the evidence. In my case I don't care much about it. What I'd want is mostly for the opfor to have non stock optimized setups with non stock weapons and better AI.

Nobody is saying (I think not seriously) a QD is not enough for the endgame but just that is bad compared to the alternatives. Not that is not capable but that is less capable. Very different thing. It's not a useless mech but it is subpar, inferior to both higher weight and many lower weight mechs.